Beren wrote:Well, negative is relative. So what do they want to impose on you? Do you feel being imposed if you have to tolerate them? You can refuse to tolerate them, but not on the basis that they impose anything on you.
These questions have already been answered in this thread. If we look again at the defintion of toxic masculinity, we see that the things that are being imposed are assault, violence, intimidation, dominance, homophobia, sexism, transphobia, bullying, and a lack of emotional freedom for men.
Dealing with these
obviously negative impositions should not be tolerated by anyone.
How is this a strawman? :?:
Because you are attacking the movement based on something that is bot true about the movement: that it excludes heterosexual men.
However, I'm also opposed to that, but I'm also opposed to your concept of masculinity.
Since I have not told you what my concept of masculinity is, this is impossible to claim.
What is a strawman, if this isn't?
How is it a strawman?
So if men have been trying to forcefully impose female gender roles for millennia, which I'm not sure if fully true, does it mean that it's time for the opposite?
No, I never claimed that.
I am pointing out that you seem to have a double standard.
Anyway, the mere act of trying to impose a specific idea of masculinity on society is not inherently wrong. Every person who has an idea of what a man is and wants others to follow it is guilty of doing this. This includes everyone who is a parent or an educator or who has any influence on how boys turn into men.
Thus, the question is why should we listen to one group more than another.
People who want bullying, homophobia, etc., to stop are trying to impose their version because it will reduce the harm caused by men.
People who want some traditional version of masculinity that does cause harm are doing it even though it causes harm to others.