[ihavenoname]

The arab world rejects the right of a Jewish state to live in Israel. Until this changes there can be no peace, no land concessions, and no independent "Palestinian" state.

You got a problem with that?

Well too bad- It's reality.

[Boondock Saint]

And you give such a powerful argument to back it up.

I would debate this but it seems you have made up your mind!

It is true though, I agree that Hamas has no room for a Jewish state to exist in its agenda. BUt then it would seem Isreal has no room in its agenda for a Muslim state.

Personally I have no room in my agenda for ANY religious state, be it Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Shinto, Spice Girls, Those guys who worship the baby in the washing machine or any other religion.

I saw the world moves in and force both sides to play nice.

[Freedom]

Look, NoName, i am very Pro-Israel, like yourself. But its too late to alter the mistake of given the Arabs another country, we must look for peace and this will enevitably involve a Palestinian State, but Israel should not back down until its security is gauranteed.

[ihavenoname]

bullshit. "force the arab world to play nice" .... You live in a dream world. The only thing the arab world respects is force.
Yes- there is room in the "JEW" view for an Independent Palestinian state. There are always fanatics- but they are in the minority. The only requirement is that there is a Jewish Majority in Israel. there are something like 800,000 Israeli Arabs in Israel right now that are Citizens. If you set up a 'palestinain" state in the WB and Gaza they should have to deal with the 350,000 Jews that live there as well.

[ihavenoname]

Look, NoName, i am very Pro-Israel, like yourself. But its too late to alter the mistake of given the Arabs another country, we must look for peace and this will enevitably involve a Palestinian State, but Israel should not back down until its security is gauranteed.

I agree- but why give the "palestinians" a state if it will just be like syria or Iran?

Israel needs a garunteed (I cant spell) peace deal with ALL of the Arab world before it even BEGINS negotiations.


Sadly this will NEVER happen.

[Boondock Saint]

Hamas' own mission statement says that Jews and other infidels will be tolerated in a their Muslim nation ...

So what you have is a Muslim version of Isreal ... thats all ...

A Jewish state that tolerates non-Jews.

A Muslim state that tolerated infidels (non-Muslims).

Whats teh difference? Either way both nations are guided by the teaching of a cult, a mythological belief ...

I think a state should exist that is neither Jewish or Muslim and it should be policed by international forces as neither the Jews nor the Muslims are capable of doing it themselves.

The world is at fault for allowing the slaughter to continue while blaming both the Jews and Muslims who are just not capable of living in peace under their own terms.

[ihavenoname]

That would be nice- but it is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

BTW- Toleration is alot different than being a Citizen.

Lets put it this way. As an Arab and a Citizen of Israel- you can buy and own land. You also dont have to pay any special 'Infadel" taxes.

In EVERY arab country if you are a Jew you are forced to pay special taxes and CANNOT OWN PROPERTY.

You cannot compare the two as equal.

[Freedom]

Actually Boon there are non Jews living in Israel...

[ihavenoname]

I think a state should exist that is neither Jewish or Muslim and it should be policed by international forces as neither the Jews nor the Muslims are capable of doing it themselves.

Would you suggest the UN? because they tried before and guess who kicked em out? The arabs. (1967 -Nasser- prelude to six day war)

Besides- Now the UN is a political Tool used by the Arab countries and it has absolutley no legitimacy. Fuck the UN.

[Classical Liberal]

The UN could neither fix the issues with Saddam nor could it do anything about the US and Britain invading Iraq. It's become like the old League of Nations. Pretty much inert and indecisive, whether for America or against it, which it usually is (not that I care). I wonder if the UN might be dissolved and a new organization with more power be made...maybe there could be another thread about that.

[ihavenoname]

Very True. I think we can agree that the UN needs a MAJOR overhaul.

[Boondock Saint]

Actually Boon there are non Jews living in Israel...

And I said Isreal is a Jewish state that tolerates non-Jews ... so ....

Besides- Now the UN is a political Tool used by the Arab countries and it has absolutley no legitimacy. Fuck the UN.

Wait a moment ... I thought the UN was a tool that the US used to enforece its will on teh world ... man ... I hear so many stories on these forums its tough to figure it out ...

You ask an arab who runs the UN and they tell you its the Jews in the US, you ask a Jew who runs the UN and they say its the arabs ... you know what I think? I think the Norwegians run the UN! Those damn Norwegians!

Actually noname, my belief is that the US stops supplying Isreal with such modern weaponry and that the US enforces UN rules on Isreal as it has on arab nations. If need be the US invades Isreal and disarms it, installing an international regime. This way both sides are disarmed, if either side acts with agression towards international forces they are dealt with harshly.

One state is formed with two provinces, each province may control domestic issues and may naturally have a police force. Neither side may have a military. Any nation that threatens either side faces internatial retaliation.

Both provinces recieve equal international aid for rebuilding.

Perhaps after a decade or three international forces can give some slack to the locals.

[Freedom]

I apologies Boon, my mistake.

[ihavenoname]

Actually Boon there are non Jews living in Israel...

And I said Isreal is a Jewish state that tolerates non-Jews ... so ....

Besides- Now the UN is a political Tool used by the Arab countries and it has absolutley no legitimacy. Fuck the UN.

Wait a moment ... I thought the UN was a tool that the US used to enforece its will on teh world ... man ... I hear so many stories on these forums its tough to figure it out ...

You ask an arab who runs the UN and they tell you its the Jews in the US, you ask a Jew who runs the UN and they say its the arabs ... you know what I think? I think the Norwegians run the UN! Those damn Norwegians!

Actually noname, my belief is that the US stops supplying Isreal with such modern weaponry and that the US enforces UN rules on Isreal as it has on arab nations. If need be the US invades Isreal and disarms it, installing an international regime. This way both sides are disarmed, if either side acts with agression towards international forces they are dealt with harshly.

One state is formed with two provinces, each province may control domestic issues and may naturally have a police force. Neither side may have a military. Any nation that threatens either side faces internatial retaliation.

Both provinces recieve equal international aid for rebuilding.

Perhaps after a decade or three international forces can give some slack to the locals.

Umm...... yeah.... right....... that will happen.....

Pardon my sarcasm.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Here is a map of Israel as provided by the CIA world fact book:

www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/is.html

I am no general but I do know that dividing your forces is almost a sure fire way to be destroyed, which leads me to believe that some of the control of the west bank has to do with strategic planning and positioning no matter what real or imagined claim to the land is.

Among other things I believe part of the problem also is dispute over "holy" areas, there are areas and sites that are considered "holy" by both Jews and Muslims. Here is one of them.

www.archaeology.org/found.php?page=/000 ... /flap.html

I will qoute from the article above because I feel that this has probably as much impact on why they continue to fight over these areas as any other reasons.

["This is not just an archaeological issue" Says Seligman "It's also political and partisan" adding that there is always a danger when applying ethnicity to archaeological finds"]

I think both sides have a lot of issues to work out and I do not take sides in this, but I think the Palestinians have as much or more right to this land as the Israelies do. I have already been accused in this forum of "defending terrorism" because I did not wholly take the Israelis side which is in my opinion very close minded, this is a two sided matter. I think that too much blood has been spilled on both sides to ever really reach an agreement that will last, and for what.. Land? God? honor? This will be my last post on this subject because I have already posted arguments about this issue elsewhere.
It's interesting to me that "holy lands" and "holy wars" always seem to be the bloodiest.

[HellsAngel]

well yes arabs do have a problem accepting a jewish state in what they call their land.İ have a syrian freind and she says that they dont care where the jews go as long as they get what they want the whole of the land i think its ashame ppl think like this i mean noone has the right to thow the jews out .İm in favor of a jewish state (israel)and a free independant state of palestine.
Right now israel is making a lot of mistakes first of all by annocing that they are going to expel Arafat and then saying that killing him is an option.İ thought israel wants peace if so then why did they start killing hamas officials in the middle of the road map talks.İt was bad timing for that.
While the palestinians are very cruel killing innocent people i especially was very sad about the suicide bombing of the bus where little children were killed it seems israel is doing very little to stop all of this and return to the road map talks.
İsrael should also stop relying on the United States so much because its getting the US into trouble with the rest of the world.İ just hope i see an end to this conflict sometime soon.



long live freedom democracy and human rights !

[Tovarish Spetsnaz]

I think the more appropriate question would be....why should the Arabs give one inch of land to the Zionists??

Throw Israel into the sea!!

Death to Zionism!!

[ItsMe]

Tovarish Spetsnaz
Funny how you have a peace emblem as your sig and talk of throwing humans into the sea...

Sadly there will never be peace in the Middle East...

For some reason Jews have been hated throughout much of history.. Mostly unfounded hatred and using them as scape goats...

It is truly sad

I do support Israeli right to have their own country and their right to democracy....also I support their right to protect themselves...and find it sad that people turn a blind eye to all the bombings of innocent civilians{850 deaths} this year alone from bombings...if any country experienced these types of attacks for along as Israel you better believe they would protect themselves by killing their enemy.

Funny how after the 1st world war the allies divided and created allot of sates whose validity has never been really questioned but people wont support the Israeli state which was created on land that they use to own.

palatine was/has never been a state but more of a region...also most of these so called Palestinians came from poor camps in Jordan when Jordan decided to kick them out...funny isn’t it....

[ihavenoname]

well yes arabs do have a problem accepting a jewish state in what they call their land.İ have a syrian freind and she says that they dont care where the jews go as long as they get what they want the whole of the land i think its ashame ppl think like this i mean noone has the right to thow the jews out .İm in favor of a jewish state (israel)and a free independant state of palestine.
Right now israel is making a lot of mistakes first of all by annocing that they are going to expel Arafat and then saying that killing him is an option.İ thought israel wants peace if so then why did they start killing hamas officials in the middle of the road map talks.İt was bad timing for that.
While the palestinians are very cruel killing innocent people i especially was very sad about the suicide bombing of the bus where little children were killed it seems israel is doing very little to stop all of this and return to the road map talks.
İsrael should also stop relying on the United States so much because its getting the US into trouble with the rest of the world.İ just hope i see an end to this conflict sometime soon.



long live freedom democracy and human rights !

I'll tell you why Israel doesnt want to deal with arafat. Israel offered Arafat the West bank and the Gaza strip with shared sovreignity over Jerusalem. Arafat rejected that offer. (isnt that what the 'Pals' want? an 'end' to the occupation??? ) of course they say the wb and Gaza strip but Israel knows better now. Arafat is a terrorist. He is resposible for the deaths of countless innocents. and btw- I think the US needs to back off of Israel as well- because as soon as they do then *boom* bye bye arafat, Hamas and alot of other fuckers. The only thing the arab world respects is FORCE.

[Tovarish Spetsnaz]

nd find it sad that people turn a blind eye to all the bombings of innocent civilians{850 deaths} this year alone from bombings..

Over 3000 Palestineans have died in the same period...

Blind eye??

Peace sign?? Yes peace sign...peace will come when Israel no longer exists.