[wat0n]

It is actually the other way around.

It is a matter of faith on your end to claim Israel is targeting aid workers, without presenting any evidence of that. I highly doubt you have inner knowledge of Israeli targeting policies.

[Pants-of-dog]

We have already seen statistical evidence that the IDF deliberately bombed the homes of aid workers.

And there is evidence that the IDF knew of the locations of humanitarian aid workers and had coordinated with the humanitarian aid workers in advance, and then bombed the area or in the case of convoys, direct attacks on the vehicles.

[wat0n]

No such evidence of targeting aid workers has been presented. Evidence like standing orders to do so, for example.

You have still not explained how is it that the damage to aid workers isn't just a result of the fact that this is a large urban war. Larger than battles like Mosul or Raqqa against ISIS, for example.

[Pants-of-dog]

Here is the info again:
https://www.arabnews.com/node/2453871/amp

Vast majority of slain UNRWA staff in Gaza were ‘off-duty’
Arab News
04 February 2024

Data analysis prompts accusations that Israel is deliberately targeting its staff members

LONDON: All but two of the 152 UN workers killed in Gaza were “off-duty” at the time of their deaths, according to data seen by The Telegraph.

The statistics reveal the extent of Israel’s bombardment of Gaza in the weeks following Oct. 7, and the reality on the ground for staff from the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees.

More UN aid workers have been killed in Gaza than in any other war in the organization’s history, prompting accusations that Israel is deliberately targeting its staff members.

Almost half of all UNRWA staff casualties occurred in the three weeks between Oct. 7 and Israel’s ground invasion of Gaza, The Telegraph reported on Sunday.

Each successive week claimed more casualties. On Oct. 27, seven days before Israel launched its land invasion, 52 UNRWA workers were killed, accounting for one-third of the total.

The deadliest day of the war so far for UN personnel was Oct. 25, when 15 staff members were killed by airstrikes.

However, after the land invasion began two days later, data shows that deaths among UNRWA workers dropped dramatically, while the rate of deaths among the general civilian population remained constant.

Dr. Michael Dunne-Willows, an ambassador for the Royal Statistical Society, assessed The Telegraph’s analysis and said that the downward trend in UN worker deaths following the invasion is “statistically significant.”

Maj. Gen. Charlie Herbert, a former British army officer and urban warfare expert, told the newspaper: “The apparently high proportion of UNRWA staff killed by the IDF in the first months of the war warrants further investigation.”

...

Furthermore, casualties were evenly distributed between Gaza’s north and so-called safe zones in the south, while the death rate for UN personnel differed from the reported civilian rate during the same time period.

Only two staff members were “on-duty” when they were killed, on Dec. 5 and 20, respectively. The data show that one of the workers was killed by an airstrike on a UN facility.

The remaining 148 workers were killed while “off-duty,” often at home with their families.

UNRWA sources have provided theories over the agency’s seemingly disproportionate casualty rate before the invasion.

Every Gazan citizen, including UNRWA staff, is assigned an ID number that is stored in a database accessible to both Palestinian and Israeli authorities. The ID code is also linked to an address.

“Israel knows where everyone lives in Gaza and they know their names,” an UNRWA official told The Telegraph.

If the IDF had planned an airstrike on a specific building in Gaza, “there would have been an understanding that a UN staff member lived in that property and could be at risk,” the official added.

Israel also reportedly issued warnings to international employees living in compounds but not to local workers at their homes.

If deaths among humanitarian aid workers had been the same as the rest of the civilian population, then the "urban conflict" claim would have some merit.

Since the rate of killings of UNRWA workers differs from the rest of the civilian population, the attacks are almost certainly deliberate.

[wat0n]

So the vast majority were killed while off-duty, does it look like Israel is targeting UN aid deliveries to you?

[Pants-of-dog]

There seems to be confusion about the argument.

The claim is that the IDF is deliberately targeting humanitarian aid workers. The claim that the IDF is attacking convoys is a different but related claim.

The statistical evidence has been presented and it disproves the counter argument that the incredibly high number of deaths among humanitarian aid workers is due to the fact that this is urban conflict. It also provides evidence that the IDF targeted the family homes of humanitarian aid workers.

We can move onto IDF attacks on convoys now, if you wish,

[wat0n]

Why would the IDF target aid workers without targeting their convoys if its goal is to stop aid deliveries?

Furthermore, UNRWA has over 13,000 workers in Gaza. And yet here you're claiming Israel is targeting UNRWA to stop aid deliveries even though not only most were killed while off duty early in the war but also the number is very low to be disruptive enough to its humanitarian operations.

Could it be that maybe Israel believed they were connected to Hamas or other Palestinian armed groups?

[Pants-of-dog]

No one claimed that the IDF would target aid workers in order to stop aid deliveries.

The bombing campaign targeting the homes of humanitarian aid workers was to destroy UNRWA, most likely.

There seems to be no argument about that.

[wat0n]

The attacks aimed to destroy UNRWA when 1) the workers were off duty, 2) the workers represented 1% or so of its work force and 3) there is no evidence those workers performed any directive roles inside UNRWA'a Gaza branch?

That's a very weird way to attempt to destroy UNRWA - not targeting its infrastructure and attacking few low level workers.

[Pants-of-dog]

Then explain the objective of bombing hundreds of humanitarian aid workers and their families.

[wat0n]

Israel itself explained it, remember? It assessed they were part of Hamas or the other armed groups. It's up to them to share their intelligence on the matter, and they should - after hostilities have ended.

[Pants-of-dog]

Israel was given more than one opportunity to provide this evidence. At this point, the facts are that the IDF has bombed the homes of humanitarian aid workers and has not provided evidence of any military advantage.

Since the Israeli government has not given any such evidence, most countries have begun donating to UNRWA again.

And this is why the IDF is being seen as deliberately killing humanitarian aid workers: because they did.

[wat0n]

Sharing intelligence in the midst of a war could expose Israeli sources and hamper its war effort. Israel has no obligation to risk its intelligence sources and particularly not while in war.

By the way, one Israeli claim that has not been proven is that UNRWA - as an institution - knowingly hired terrorists. Since Israel has not provided the evidence, other countries are resuming donations - but even UNRWA accepted that some of its employees likely participated in terrorist activities and were fired. And I say "likely" because the UN is not a criminal tribunal that can prove this beyond reasonable doubt.

[Pants-of-dog]

Speculation about possible justifications for the observed deliberate slaughter of families is a tacit admission that the IDF targeted and killed families in their homes. And it is a clear and open agree with the claim that the Israeli government has not provided evidence of militant activity for the vast majority of humanitarian aid workers killed by the IDF.

Two pages ago, these exact claims were described as nonsense debunked for the n-th time.

Now that we have seen that the IDF is deliberately targeting UNRWA workers, and we see that the Israeli government is passing several laws to abolish UNRWA, it would be logical to claim that these two groups are making a concerted effort to destroy UNRWA entirely.

[wat0n]

It is not speculation to say Israel claims to have attacked them because it suspected them to be part of Hamas or some other armed group. That is its own allegation if anything.

What is speculation however is to claim Israel is trying to destroy UNRWA when 1) no such laws have been passed and UNRWA still operates in Israeli-controlled territory, 2) the UNRWA workers killed were off duty, 3) these UNRWA workers are around 1% of its Gaza labor force, 4) there's no evidence these workers were highly ranked within UNRWA.

[Pants-of-dog]

At this point, the claim that the UNRWA workers were Hamas militants is speculation, since it is an unverifiable claim. Not only is there no evidence, but there can be no evidence until after hostilities end. Claims that cannot be supported, verified or falsified are necessarily speculation.

Please provide evidence that UNRWA operates on Israeli territory.

[wat0n]

It is just as speculative as claiming Israel killed them because of some weird ass plan to destroy UNRWA without killing its leadership, hitting its infrastructure or killing most of its personnel.

UNRWA operates in Jerusalem. That is very much Israeli-controlled.