[ingliz]

@FiveofSwords

58 per cent of African Americans have at least 12.5% European ancestry.

Are they 'white'?

Under your one-drop rule, 'whites' with a smidgeon of black blood are 'black', and 12.5% is more than a smidgeon of white blood.

You told us early on that skin colour didn't matter.

European

Daft as it seems, what with ethnic intermarriage, the numerous generations that separate respondents from their forebears, and the apparent unimportance many Americans attach to their European ancestry - Being 'white' with all its advantages is enough for them, it is almost impossible to distinguish those who identify strongly with a specific European group from those who report symbolic or imagined ethnicity (Farley 1991).

also

It looks like you will be deporting lots of 'blacks' who think they're 'white'...

Trivia:

In South Carolina, using autosomal testing that only shows recent admixtures - 'recent' being no more than 200 years - at least 13 per cent of self-identified 'whites' have 1 per cent or more African ancestry.

The percentage of would-be 'blacks' under the one-drop rule who self-identify as 'white' in South Carolina - 13 per cent - is the same as the percentage of people nationwide who self-identified as 'black' in the 2010 U.S. Census.

and

If you were sincere that skin colour doesn't matter, you'd be keeping lots of 'whites' who thought they were 'black'.

[Tainari88]

I don't think "you are" a snob.

I think you said some snobbish things to FiveofSwords like calling him "a fucking Nazi."

This is the Godstud way of arguing, and it doesn't work. It degrades the person using the tactic.

I realize that you don't come from a snotty 1% private school background. But snobbism can affect anyone, especially reactionary snobbism when one has been verbally attacked by someone crude.

But don't become what you fight, is all I am saying.

If FiveofSwords' ideas are crap, they can be exposed as such without resorting to name-calling and psychological torture.

No, Q. I had enough of the Nazis in real life. I had enough of those people.

The racists and the racism are entering public life in the US.

I think it is time I leave PoFo for a very long time. Maybe when I am less busy and can see sense in allowing full blown racists and anti semites be acceptable and not be reprimanded for defending the idea that violent racism is wrong for society at large it might be time to come back.

For now. I hope you have long conversations with @FiveofSwords about how much Jews run the world. Because unless you start actively dealing with these people in social media, and in voting blocks? The racist stuff is going to take over the nation with the most arms in the world.

And maybe you will learn what they are about on a real level.

[FiveofSwords]

@FiveofSwords

58 per cent of African Americans have at least 12.5% European ancestry.

Are they 'white'?

Under your one-drop rule, 'whites' with a smidgeon of black blood are 'black', and 12.5% is more than a smidgeon of white blood.

You told us early on that skin colour didn't matter.





Daft as it seems, what with ethnic intermarriage, the numerous generations that separate respondents from their forebears, and the apparent unimportance many Americans attach to their European ancestry - Being 'white' with all its advantages is enough for them, it is almost impossible to distinguish those who identify strongly with a specific European group from those who report symbolic or imagined ethnicity (Farley 1991).

also

It looks like you will be deporting lots of 'blacks' who think they're 'white'...

Trivia:

In South Carolina, using autosomal testing that only shows recent admixtures - 'recent' being no more than 200 years - at least 13 per cent of self-identified 'whites' have 1 per cent or more African ancestry.

The percentage of would-be 'blacks' under the one-drop rule who self-identify as 'white' in South Carolina - 13 per cent - is the same as the percentage of people nationwide who self-identified as 'black' in the 2010 U.S. Census.

and

If you were sincere that skin colour doesn't matter, you'd be keeping lots of 'whites' who thought they were 'black'.

No, black people are not white.

I'm baffled at how easy you are to confuse. It's interesting that you are finally able to recognize that there is such a thing as European ancestry, I guess. But wherever you heard that a single drop of European blood makes you turn white is just insane. Biology doesn't work that way

[ingliz]

@FiveofSwords

European ancestry...

You hop off the boat, marry a European, have kids, and your children have European ancestry.

Ancestry has nothing to do with race or ethnicity.





P.S. How much white blood turns you 'white'?

[FiveofSwords]

@FiveofSwords

European ancestry...

You hop off the boat, marry a European, have kids, and your children have European ancestry.

Ancestry has nothing to do with race or ethnicity.





P.S. How much white blood turns you 'white'?

Race is 100% heritable. Europe is no longer a place for white people of course (there is no place for them...which is kinda my point)... but that is the location white people evolved in.

[ingliz]

@FiveofSwords

The completion of the Human Genome Project in 2003 confirmed there is no genetic basis for race. The species Homo sapiens cannot be further subdivided into subspecies which are physically and genetically different. Thus, for H.sapiens, the species and subspecies are the same—H.sapiens sapiens.

[FiveofSwords]

@FiveofSwords

The completion of the Human Genome Project in 2003 confirmed there is no genetic basis for race. The species Homo sapiens cannot be further subdivided into subspecies which are physically and genetically different. Thus, for H.sapiens, the species and subspecies are the same—H.sapiens sapiens.

Okay. Then blacks were never enslaved and jews were never killed in the holocaust.

[noemon]

Non black is not the same as white,lol.i don't understand where you get that. Chinese people are not black or white.

Correct, therefore non-Black is not White, as you asserted. Your assertion is plainly wrong therefore.

You can just assert with certainty that there is no genetic similarity between European people but it is si ply wrong and absurd. It is certainly not the scientific consensus.. you could get a dna test right now and be informed what European ancestry you have

It is both the scientific consensus and self-evident reality that a Greek person or Italian may share more genetic and phenotypic similarities with non-white people than other "white" people.

Okay. Then blacks were never enslaved and jews were never killed in the holocaust.

What are you on about? It does not follow from what he said. Black-American people and Jewish people are a lot more valid ethnic-groups than "white" people, Black Americans and Jews are as valid as Greeks, Italians, Germans, Hungarians, etcetera because they have actual collective memory, Greek people do not share the American collective memory and Americans do not share the Greek collective memory, so if you lump them together as "white", that group means nothing at all.

Also, what makes you think you can tell people who to fuck and have children with?

Is that what you worry and trouble yourself with?

Why?

[FiveofSwords]

Correct, therefore non-Black is not White, as you asserted. Your assertion is plainly wrong therefore.



It is both the scientific consensus and self-evident reality that a Greek person or Italian may share more genetic and phenotypic similarities with non-white people than other "white" people.



What are you on about? It does not follow from what he said. Black-American people and Jewish people are a lot more valid ethnic-groups than "white" people, Black Americans and Jews are as valid as Greeks, Italians, Germans, Hungarians, etcetera because they have actual collective memory, Greek people do not share the American collective memory and Americans do not share the Greek collective memory, so if you lump them together as "white", that group means nothing at all.

Also, what makes you think you can tell people who to fuck and have children with?

Is that what you worry and trouble yourself with?

Why?

So Greeks and southern Italians are not very white lol. Okay.

And yeah I can enforce who people breed with, if I had power. In the interest of preserving a race. I could just execute anyone who breaks that law and I'm sure it would reduce the frequency. If we need bigger deterrents then we could increase how painful the method of execution is. I don't really care if that concept upsets you.

[KurtFF8]

^ Uhh.. what?

[MadMonk]

So Greeks and southern Italians are not very white lol. Okay.

And yeah I can enforce who people breed with, if I had power. In the interest of preserving a race. I could just execute anyone who breaks that law and I'm sure it would reduce the frequency. If we need bigger deterrents then we could increase how painful the method of execution is. I don't really care if that concept upsets you.

I think we just passed WAY beyond the deep end right here. But I guess that's all right? I've always wanted a broad selection of opinions represented.

This might be the first time I'm starting to question that assessment.

[ingliz]

Wherever you heard that a single drop of European blood makes you turn white is just insane. Biology doesn't work that way

Then how is it, according to you, that a single drop of black blood turns an outwardly white person black?

If that is not your position now (you appear to have dumped that argument looking at your last post), how do you know who's black and who's white?

What percentage of black or white blood tips the scale one way or t'other?

[wat0n]

I wonder when will he start with the pencil test.

[Fasces]

Admin Edit: Rule 2 Violation

Race is not scientifically or historically consistent.

It is, however, socially relevant. Race is a belief, and people act on that belief in ways that have very real, material and quantifiable consequences for people.

In the same way, the Bible or Quran isn't scientifically or historically consistent - nonetheless, Christianity and Islam have very real, material ,and quantifiable consequences for people.

There are Jews with genes that are typically found in other Jews, especially Ashkenazim. There are also Jews without those genes, and persons with those genes that aren't Jews. Looking at a genome sequence isn't a garauntee of whether or not a person considers themselves Jewish, is a practicing Jew, represents themselves as a Jew, or is identified by others as a Jew. The most important thing that makes a Jew a Jew is not whether they have some random genes, or even whether they consider themselves Jewish, but whether other people consider them Jewish and choose to treat people one way or another based on that belief.

[FiveofSwords]

Then how is it, according to you, that a single drop of black blood turns an outwardly white person black?

If that is not your position now (you appear to have dumped that argument looking at your last post), how do you know who's black and who's white?

What percentage of black or white blood tips the scale one way or t'other?


:?:

I have zero tolerance for inconsistency in my beliefs. If you were ever able to show me an inconsistency, I would simply change my beliefs.

[noemon]

So Greeks and southern Italians are not very white lol. Okay.

Greeks do not need to be “white” to be proud. We ‘re proud of who we are regardless. You ‘re the one manufacturing an identity presumably because being “American” is just not good enough for insecure people.

I am Greek and you are American and we do not share a common memory or identity as such we do not belong to the same cultural or ethnic group, therefore the “white” group you imagined is totally invalid and inconsistent.

And yeah I can enforce who people breed with, if I had power. In the interest of preserving a race. I could just execute anyone who breaks that law and I'm sure it would reduce the frequency. If we need bigger deterrents then we could increase how painful the method of execution is.

So you are coming to my house to tell me my family is invalid and that if it were up to you you ‘d kill us for marrying my wife. You are using this forum to promote racial murder & terrorism, unashamedly as well.

Well, it is within my power to just make you disappear from in here, and if you ‘d kill me for having sex with my wife then you ‘d normally comprehend why someone would just kick you out from their house since you disrespect them, their house and their family.

So take this as clear as possible, next racist comment you make, you ‘re done in here.

I don't really care if that concept upsets you.

If you didnt care about peoples opinions you would not be posting in a forum, but whether you actually do or dont is irrelevant anyway and I genuinely do not care but do care to point your inconsistency out to you since you enjoy sucking that lollipop.

[FiveofSwords]

Greeks do not need to be “white” to be proud. We ‘re proud of who we are regardless. You ‘re the one manufacturing an identity presumably because being “American” is just not good enough for insecure people.

I am Greek and you are American and we do not share a common memory or identity as such we do not belong to the same cultural or ethnic group, therefore the “white” group you imagined is totally invalid and inconsistent.




So you are coming to my house to tell me my family is invalid and that if it were up to you you ‘d kill us for marrying my wife. You are using this forum to promote racial murder & terrorism, unashamedly as well.

Well, it is within my power to just make you disappear from in here, and if you ‘d kill me for having sex with my wife then you ‘d normally comprehend why someone would just kick you out from their house since you disrespect them, their house and their family.

So take this as clear as possible, next racist comment you make, you ‘re done in here.



If you didnt care about peoples opinions you would not be posting in a forum, but whether you actually do or dont is irrelevant anyway and I genuinely do not care but do care to point your inconsistency out to you since you enjoy sucking that lollipop.

It is strange to be a Greek in the current day...because racially you are just Turkish. You are probably not 'race mixing' at all with your Iranian wife. Yet Greeks still speak an I do European language. That is just a leftover quirk from ancient history...there is zero connection in your blood to those ancient people, who are now extinct. Between the two of us, I would actually be more closely related to Homer than you are...although my connection to him is not all that close. He was just a member of an extinct people.

Nobody bother to impose any policies that would have been needed to preserve those people. Thus they are extinct.

The same might soon happen to my own people...which of course you don't care about because you don't like to believe that I come from a legitimate people. But insisting I do not come from a legitimate people does make it awkward for you to complain about how we conquered the earth...that is of course inconsistent.

[noemon]

It is strange to be a Greek in the current day...because racially you are just Turkish. You are probably not 'race mixing' at all with your Iranian wife. Yet Greeks still speak an I do European language. That is just a leftover quirk from ancient history...there is zero connection in your blood to those ancient people, who are now extinct. Between the two of us, I would actually be more closely related to Homer than you are...although my connection to him is not all that close. He was just a member of an extinct people.

Nobody bother to impose any policies that would have been needed to preserve those people. Thus they are extinct.

The same might soon happen to my own people...which of course you don't care about because you don't like to believe that I come from a legitimate people. But insisting I do not come from a legitimate people does make it awkward for you to complain about how we conquered the earth...that is of course inconsistent.

You don't believe that you come from a legitimate people. Not me.

I am very happy to be Greek and my friends are happy to be Americans.

You are not [happy to be American], you want to be some special kind of white that you have failed to define. First you said "White is not Black, the 2 are distinct", that's just silly because 'White' is not what is left of 'not-Black', then you said "White is European, Christian, Greek" so Greeks, Italians, French, Germans, Dutch, Swedes, Anglos, Serbs, Hungarians, Poles, Scots are all "the white people", which is even more silly as one can clearly witness.

You 're just sour because you don't make any sense and bitter hence your hatred against other people, their families and what colour is the person they lay in bed at night with.

This is a serious ailment.

[FiveofSwords]

You don't believe that you come from a legitimate people. Not me.

I am very happy to be Greek and my friends are happy to be Americans.

You are not [happy to be American], you want to be some special kind of white that you have failed to define. First you said "White is not Black, the 2 are distinct", that's just silly because 'White' is not what is left of 'not-Black', then you said "White is European, Christian, Greek" so Greeks, Italians, French, Germans, Dutch, Swedes, Anglos, Serbs, Hungarians, Poles, Scots are all "the white people", which is even more silly as one can clearly witness.

You 're just sour because you don't make any sense and bitter hence your hatred against other people, their families and what colour is the person they lay in bed at night with.

This is a serious ailment.

What are you talking about? I defined white just fine. And no, Greeks are not white and Christianity has nothing to do with being white.

White people are the people who genetically adapted to the way of life that Europeans aboted for the past couple thousand years. I gave you a long tist of events in our history that altered our dna. Is it really that difficult for you to understand?

And you seem to making pretty sad logic fails. No...black people are not white. But that does not actually imply that everyone who isn't black is white...it is quite possible for a person to be neither black nor white.

White is a category. There are a lot of ethnic groups that are white. For example...Dutch and 3nglish people are white. So a person can be both Dutch and white...there is no contradiction. I just wonder if you know how categories work? A bulldog is a kind of dog, for example. It is quite possible for a life form to be simultaneously a bulldog and a dog...because 'dog' is just more broad a category.

In the same way, it is possible to live both in new York and in the usa. Because new York is in the usa.

Isthis stuff too confusing for you or what? I'm not sure how to teach the concept of a category to people.

[ingliz]

racially you are just Turkish

Turkish farmers were the first white men; your lot*, the Scots, were late to the party.

Our findings confirm pigmentation alleles as major targets of selection during the Holocene, particularly on a small proportion of loci with large effect sizes.

Additionally, our results provide unprecedentedly detailed information about the duration and geographic spread of these processes suggesting that an allele associated with lighter skin was selected for repeatedly, probably as a consequence of similar environmental pressures occurring at different times in different regions. In the ancestry-stratified analysis, all marginal ancestries show broad agreement at the SLC45A2 locus but differ in the timing of their frequency shifts. The Anatolian farmer ancestry background shows the earliest evidence for selection, followed by Eastern hunter-gatherer and Western hunter-gatherers around c. 10,000 years ago, and Caucasus hunter-gatherers c. 2,000 years later.

In all ancestry backgrounds except Western hunter-gatherers, the selected haplotypes reach near fixation by c. 3,000 years ago, whilst the Western hunter-gatherers' haplotype background contains the majority of ancestral alleles still segregating in present-day Europeans. This finding suggests that selection on this allele was much weaker in ancient western hunter-gatherer groups during the Holocene compared to elsewhere. We also detect strong selection at the SLC24A5 locus (rs1426654; p=6.45e-09; s=0.019) which is also associated with skin pigmentation.

At this locus, the selected allele increased in frequency even earlier than SLC45A2 and reached near fixation c. 3,500 years ago. Selection on this locus thus seems to have occurred early on in groups that were moving northwards and westwards, and only later in the Western hunter-gatherer background after these groups encountered and admixed with the incoming populations.

— Kristiansen et al. (2022) The Selection Landscape and Genetic Legacy of Ancient Eurasians





* Note that the Scots like the Welsh came over from Ireland and were originally dark-skinned.