Races aren't real, but 'black' is real - Page 12 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15313452
Potemkin wrote:Actually, we did - the speciation of humans from the last common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees was a long and complex process which took millions of years. Even after the clade which eventually led to humans separated from the last common ancestor, we still cross-bred with them for a very long period, possibly for a million years or more. This was before two of our chromosomes fused, of course. After that, the human clade was definitely a separate species.


FYI, it is impossible for all of our chromosomes to fuse simultaneously
#15313455
ingliz wrote:@FiveofSwords

There is no biological aspect to race.

In 2003, the Human Genome Project demonstrated that humans populating the earth today are on average over 99.9% identical at the DNA level, there is no genetic basis for race, and there is more genetic variation within a race than between them. In addition, genetic isolation, sharp boundaries and distinct evolutionary lineages of ‘races’ do not exist.


:)


If that were true then nobody could tell from physical appearance whether someone is white or black. But pretty much everyone can. It is simply an absurd claim.
#15313456
ingliz wrote:@FiveofSwords

There is no biological aspect to race.

In 2003, the Human Genome Project demonstrated that humans populating the earth today are on average over 99.9% identical at the DNA level, there is no genetic basis for race, and there is more genetic variation within a race than between them. In addition, genetic isolation, sharp boundaries, and distinct evolutionary lineages of ‘races’ do not exist.


:)


But Morgan Freeman looks black to my eyeballs. He is black. So that means that race exists. He is not getting the argument the scientists are talking about.

It is like looking at an oak tree, another type of oak tree, and another tree and another tree, and there are physical differences due to the climate, the environment, etc. But they are all trees. The thing is can you do a hybrid tree? That then becomes a new species of tree. One that reproduces and can find a niche in an environment?

Then the argument about cloning. I already talked about clones are not strong for survival due to not having enough genetic variation inherent in the genes of a clone to avoid a total wipeout if faced with a disease that attacks its immune system. If the defense system is exactly a copy of the copy of original like the Cavendish banana was chosen from many varieties of banana because it traveled well it had a more bland flavor and it fit the criteria of having people buy Cavendish bananas in the North versus its natural environment. Then it is chosen by a human manipulating the genes of the banana. That is why now the Cavendish is being attacked and could go extinct. It is a clone and has no real answer to the fungus attack going through the world. Meanwhile, the huge variety of banana types including the genus ones that were NOT picked for commercial cloning could be resistant to the fungus that is wiping the Cavendish out...in that case, it might not hold up well to being picked very green and transported for long periods. It has other instructions in the gene.

No answer to that explanation either. Variation is key to species survival. If the world gets its ozone layer thinned out and you have higher incidents of skin cancer in the populations and the ones who resist the UV that is harsh and bright have been selected to survive more over time? Say over 10k years of too many UV rays hitting and bouncing off the Earth? Then the humans who have slightly more resistance to skin cancer are going to survive more. And the ones with less of that will die off either gradually or over time.

The important factor though is that the ones who do survive still carry a gene of the ones who did not have much resistance and could be pulled out of recessive and dormant status if there is a new change or challenge.

The more variation of all species in the biodiversity of the planet then if there is more varieties and diverse species present in the world, there is a very great possibility of adaptability and a healthy environment. When there is a mass amount of dying off of species you have an incoming extinction event. This one that is coming is mainly made by human beings by following capitalism too much and do not pay attention to what needs to happen to preserve life on Earth. A lack of respect for boundaries.

Wanting to kill off other ethnicities, cultures, and peoples because you are a Nazi with narrow tunnel visions? It won't help us survive it at all. Quite the opposite.
#15313459
FiveofSwords wrote:If that were true then nobody could tell from physical appearance whether someone is white or black. But pretty much everyone can. It is simply an absurd claim.

This is not a scientific argument for the existence of races, @FiveofSwords. It’s like arguing that we see the Sun moving but not the Earth, therefore the Sun must be rotating around the Earth. Simply arguing from the surface appearance of phenomena can be misleading. Skin colour looks like a major genetic difference, but it actually isn’t.
#15313460
FiveofSwords wrote:You would fail a middle school science class.


I am not the one who never shows his credentials or talks about it with specific institutions and dates and times and etc. You fail to do a damn thing. Probably because you do not have any of them. Just some thought that the Nazis have that they must go and try to make a statement in some public fora to people who might be reading. We do not have a huge audience in this website. Those would be Instagram, Youtube, and Facebook, etc.

But since the Nazis are associated with hate speech all the damn day, and being into violent ideation and got to conquer and kill and sleigh the enemy? They are a legal liability online for writing fora. You get booted out.

Here you can have very off the mainstream beliefs. What you can't do is pretend to be an expert and when challenged you evade, run from it, ignore and do not answer with any truth.

Be honest and say, -No, I never studied genetics in a university. Ever. I got my information from these books I have studied on my own since x years. I like the topic and would welcome others to discuss respectfully the subject matter.

So far, I have noticed you have a real deficit with abstract concepts and with being able to understand a lot of what Potemkin talks about. Why?

He is trying to get you to reflect on it. I literally have read Potemkin's (one of his thesis). Lol. I am smiling. He is a scientist. The kind that burns a lot of time and energy in figuring things out.

He is just with people. He does not care what kinds of theories you say are valid. The important thing for him is if it passing the scientific examination test. If it does not? He will tell you if it does or not.

Now, if you want to say he is a Communist and therefore he has no real authority to judge a National Socialist? Then you can be a party hack and go and scratch your own head doing something different.

Again, if all of us are supposedly dummies in here incapable of understanding your greatness? Then why stay here? Go to a place that claps and applauds all your theories of the flimsy sort?
#15313461
Potemkin wrote:This is not a scientific argument for the existence of races, @FiveofSwords. It’s like arguing that we see the Sun moving but not the Earth, therefore the Sun must be rotating around the Earth. Simply arguing from the surface appearance of phenomena can be misleading. Skin colour looks like a major genetic difference, but it actually isn’t.


Skin color is a greater than zero genetic difference. You are insisting that it is zero.

The fact I can see the sun is evidence thst the sun exists. If your 'science' asserts that the sun doesn't exist, then it is demonstrably wrong.
#15313462
FiveofSwords wrote:As I pointed out. the source says 'there is no scientific consensus on whether such hybridization is possible.


I know. I quoted that bit too. If you read my post carefully, you will notice that.

Then I quoted a while bunch if other stuff that yo left out that contradicts you.

I did not in any way imply our ancestors were chimpanzee.


You certainly did.

Gorillas also have the same number of chromosomes as chimpanzee. Gorillas are not chimpanzee, fyi

This is just the fundamental issue we keep running into. You are just not educated enough to discuss these topics or understand anything I am saying or anything a source is saying.


None of this addresses my claim and can therefore be ignored.
#15313465
late wrote:She didn't say that, and it doesn't look like you understood what she did say..


That is because the only language he really understands is violence. If the species or 'race' is the wrong race? The one that is inferior? Then he can't understand. It is called a blockage filter. It exists. In the minds of racist people.

You can get through to them Late. But you got to do a Planet of the Apes Caesar deal on them....observe what gets through the abusive types who equate Africans with Apes, and Chimps and so on?

That entire movie was about how humans are a bunch of fools.

Lol.

They should have said racist humans are a bunch of fools.



Gee, Caesar had a voice box? Yes he did. He had a voice box. And it meant he could speak. Haha.
#15313466
Tainari88 wrote:I am not the one who never shows his credentials or talks about it with specific institutions and dates and times and etc. You fail to do a damn thing. Probably because you do not have any of them. Just some thought that the Nazis have that they must go and try to make a statement in some public fora to people who might be reading. We do not have a huge audience in this website. Those would be Instagram, Youtube, and Facebook, etc.

But since the Nazis are associated with hate speech all the damn day, and being into violent ideation and got to conquer and kill and sleigh the enemy? They are a legal liability online for writing fora. You get booted out.

Here you can have very off the mainstream beliefs. What you can't do is pretend to be an expert and when challenged you evade, run from it, ignore and do not answer with any truth.

Be honest and say, -No, I never studied genetics in a university. Ever. I got my information from these books I have studied on my own since x years. I like the topic and would welcome others to discuss respectfully the subject matter.

So far, I have noticed you have a real deficit with abstract concepts and with being able to understand a lot of what Potemkin talks about. Why?

He is trying to get you to reflect on it. I literally have read Potemkin's (one of his thesis). Lol. I am smiling. He is a scientist. The kind that burns a lot of time and energy in figuring things out.

He is just with people. He does not care what kinds of theories you say are valid. The important thing for him is if it passing the scientific examination test. If it does not? He will tell you if it does or not.

Now, if you want to say he is a Communist and therefore he has no real authority to judge a National Socialist? Then you can be a party hack and go and scratch your own head doing something different.

Again, if all of us are supposedly dummies in here incapable of understanding your greatness? Then why stay here? Go to a place that claps and applauds all your theories of the flimsy sort?

I told you why I am here. You all make me feel very superior.
#15313481
Potemkin wrote:This is not a scientific argument for the existence of races, @FiveofSwords. It’s like arguing that we see the Sun moving but not the Earth, therefore the Sun must be rotating around the Earth. Simply arguing from the surface appearance of phenomena can be misleading. Skin colour looks like a major genetic difference, but it actually isn’t.


But Denzel is black. And we see him and know it.

Do we know if he has a white ancestor though? Got to check the genes.

Come on now Potemkin, you feel a deep brotherhood with the Cambridge British elite types, the Scottish upper middle class, the whiteness in you makes you scream, 'Solidaridad mis hermanos escoseses. Soy tuyo por ser blanco. Ser blanco es la razón de mi existir.'

Solidarité mes frères écossais. Je suis à toi parce que je suis blanc. Être blanc est la raison pour laquelle j'existe.


This is how you know about real solidarity.

You know Sword man was outraged that Suella Braverman was representing the UK. She is not English, or a white English woman. She is some brown person who is a total sellout Tory brown-nosing woman. Looking to back Sunak in running the show for the Tory party after Truss bailed ship on the Brexit nightmare. The UK is English. Everyone in that land has to look English, speak English, and be English and more than that. It is a color coded world. You got to have only Russians in Russia, and Scottish people in Scotland. You got Romanians in Romania and this color code. It is all neat and clean. The way legos are designated and color coded to fit into a code. because, that is the way it should be damn it. These messy humans. Aren't you supposed to marry Mary McGregor soon? You color coded man!? :lol:

Now? I want to know.....do you feel solidarity with Suella? With Boris? With Alex Brown and so on? Where is your solidarity based on somatic looks?

:lol:

Nazis of the USA? They are running out of people on the internet that tolerate their tunnel brains...and they got PoFo to molest. Hee hee. Do you back them my dear Potemkin? That is the big pregunta en el cielo.
#15313482
Pants-of-dog wrote:I know. I quoted that bit too. If you read my post carefully, you will notice that.

Then I quoted a while bunch if other stuff that yo left out that contradicts you.



You certainly did.



None of this addresses my claim and can therefore be ignored.


I said there is no scientific consensus on whether a hybridization is possible. You said that was stupid and scientists all say it is impossible. I quoted a source that literally said verbatim that there is no scientific consensus on whether such hybridization is possible. You seemed to accept the source so your only reasonable reply would be 'okay you were correct sorry that I am so stupid thank you for teaching me.'
Last edited by FiveofSwords on 26 Apr 2024 00:37, edited 1 time in total.
#15313483
@FiveofSwords

Changing your argument is called “moving the goalposts”. You originally said it was arbitrary to define humans and chimpanzees as different species. Now you have shifted all the way to “science cannot say for sure that a hybrid is impossible”.
#15313485
Pants-of-dog wrote:@FiveofSwords

Changing your argument is called “moving the goalposts”. You originally said it was arbitrary to define humans and chimpanzees as different species. Now you have shifted all the way to “science cannot say for sure that a hybrid is impossible”.

Uh no...both things are absolutely true. I am not moving any goalposts. You insisted that humans and chimps cannot have offspring. I said there was no scientific consensus on that. I showed a source repeating that claim. I also said it is possible that humans are a ring species. You rejected that for no reason but whatever.. the fact you even know that a ring species is possible proves that your definition of species is simplistic and incomplete. Indeed there are many animals who are technically different species but absolutrly can have viable offspring.
#15313487
Pants-of-dog wrote:@FiveofSwords

Changing your argument is called “moving the goalposts”. You originally said it was arbitrary to define humans and chimpanzees as different species. Now you have shifted all the way to “science cannot say for sure that a hybrid is impossible”.


I also simply gave you a freebie about how that article was necessarily wrong. The article pretended that 100% of the time there is no way to have viable offspring between life forms that have different numbers of chromosomes.

If you use some basic logic and consider what that implies, then it could not be possible that any life forms could have different numbers of chromosomes. All life on earth has a single common ancestor with a set number of chromosomes (zero, in fact)...and no evolution ever could have occurred to alter that number...if it is in fact true that no viable offspring are possible 100% of the time.

The article doesn't seem to think about or address that conundrum. And it is of course simply wrong.

Well...it is Newsweek after all...journalists are not scientists (and neither are anthropologists)
#15313489
Pants-of-dog wrote:@FiveofSwords

Changing your argument is called “moving the goalposts”. You originally said it was arbitrary to define humans and chimpanzees as different species. Now you have shifted all the way to “science cannot say for sure that a hybrid is impossible”.


Another funny thing about that article is that it says '99 percent of human and chiml dna coding sequences are the same'..I suppose that means dna known to be associated with creation of proteins. It might be what @ingliz keeps talking about with his dumb non scientific category of 'phenotype dna' (lol) versus 'genotype dna'..but I dunno I never heard of a geneticist make a 'phenotype dna' label and it is stupid by definition.

But anyway if that IS what he means, the truth seems to be that humans and chimps actually share a whopping 100% of their protein coding dna...making them more similar to humans than @ingliz is willing to grant that humans are similar to humans. Funny.

Turns out that the only real difference between humans and chimps in in what geneticists used to call 'junk dna'...proving that we don't actually know how all dna works. As of 2012, that mystery was not solved. I dunno if it had been since cause I don't follow such news...but it is an interesting fact.
#15313492
The articles presented by Five, are about failed and undone or incomplete experiments. They were also highly unethical in general. There were zero hybrids produced between humans and chimps. Zero. None.

The reason for that is this:

Can different genus produce fertile offspring?
Only the members of a species can interbreed, producing fertile offspring. Groups of similar species form a genus. Members of a genus, thus, have many common features; they however, are not similar enough to interbreed to produce fertile offspring.


Why two different but closely related species are not producing viable offspring?
Reproductive Isolation. Given enough time, the genetic and phenotypic divergence between populations will affect characters that influence reproduction: if individuals of the two populations were to be brought together, mating would be less likely, but if mating occurred, offspring would be non-viable or infertile.Sep 1, 2021


No, Swordy does not really say what relevance trying to produce a chimp-human infant would prove? That Africans that in his racist mind look like apes or chimps are another species but the white people who do that are not being racially hygienic or some such nonsense racist bullshit that are accepted thought in his scientific junk ideology.

He will not take on the scientist I posted. Zach man. No. He calls him a liar. But does not refute his arguments. It could be laziness but I suspect he has nothing to rebutt with. Then he goes back to his usual :violin: :music: of I am way out of your league. He talks to himself. Does a lonely pep talk in front of the mirror in his room there....Si me comprendieras, que feliz seria....si me comprendieras...

That is his tune. Here is the Lucha Gatica the classic South American crooner. If only you could understand me....since I am so far away from you.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :D



The reality is that the cloning of animals has been successful. But mixing a human with an animal like the ancient Greeks used to have Centaurs or half bull and half humans, or winged horses like Pegasus. No. That is a myth. Especially with a sexual act. Made by a human and a nonhuman. What always works is a sexual act of two sexually mature young people who have gone through full puberty and have sex and they are opposite-sex people. It could be an African woman and a Dutchman. That happened in South Africa with regularity. Many people do have that kind of past. If it happens enough? They become one culture. It happened in Spain, the Iberians and the Celtic people. Celtíberos. Celtiberians. But it is messy. So the neat package pushing a fake Nazi narrative can not accept it. Break out the kleenex. :lol:

Humans have always been on the move. They move into territories and move out when they have to move due to no more resources there to be had or better hunting, fishing, and foraging in some other place. Humans are a very adaptable species. They adapt to cold climates, warm climates, deserts, islands, peninsulas, mountainous regions plains, the heat from humidity to dryness, and cold. To almost every geography known to the world. Humans adapt. They do not stay still. Once they domesticated the horse and the cart and had the wheel and the oxen and the plow....they produced food. The most convenient places to have entire cities filled with diverse travelers and traders were always rivers. That is why Paris, New York City, London, and many other important cities in the Old World and in the New World are near important rivers and bays. Were they pure of race or ethnicity? No. Not from the very foundations. That is a fact. Something the again tunnel vision people out there, have issues with.

African-looking humans and European-looking humans have interbred for thousands of years. Especially in areas of the Middle East and Northern Africa. Egypt was a multiracial society. There were Nubians who were very dark-skinned, Greeks, and many other groups including Coptic-speaking people and recently there has been a cult that worshipped lions that have recently been documented. If one observes the art of the Egyptians the most common phenotype are copper-skinned people with dark eyes and dark hair.

There was an African Queen who was a club-footed queen who defeated Marc Anthony of the Roman Empire fame.

Racial mixing has happened for a very long time. Hittites, Semites, and so on were part of the enslaved peoples used by the Pharaohs. It was common practice for brothers and sisters to marry each other and rule the Nile together.

It is a very interesting history of Northern Africa in Egypt. In Arabic to this day being a despot is called in the Arabic language being Pharaonic. Pharoah means abusive and arrogant. Despotic.
#15313494
Tainari88 wrote:The articles presented by Five, are about failed and undone or incomplete experiments. They were also highly unethical in general. There were zero hybrids produced between humans and chimps. Zero. None.

The reason for that is this:





No, Swordy does not really say what relevance trying to produce a chimp-human infant would prove? That Africans that in his racist mind look like apes or chimps are another species but the white people who do that are not being racially hygienic or some such nonsense racist bullshit that are accepted thought in his scientific junk ideology.

He will not take on the scientist I posted. Zach man. No. He calls him a liar. But does not refute his arguments. It could be laziness but I suspect he has nothing to rebutt with. Then he goes back to his usual :violin: :music: of I am way out of your league. He talks to himself. Does a lonely pep talk in front of the mirror in his room there....Si me comprendieras, que feliz seria....si me comprendieras...

That is his tune. Here is the Lucha Gatica the classic South American crooner. If only you could understand me....since I am so far away from you.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :D



The reality is that the cloning of animals has been successful. But mixing a human with an animal like the ancient Greeks used to have Centaurs or half bull and half humans, or winged horses like Pegasus. No. That is a myth. Especially with a sexual act. Made by a human and a nonhuman. What always works is a sexual act of two sexually mature young people who have gone through full puberty and have sex and they are opposite-sex people. It could be an African woman and a Dutchman. That happened in South Africa with regularity. Many people do have that kind of past. If it happens enough? They become one culture. It happened in Spain, the Iberians and the Celtic people. Celtíberos. Celtiberians. But it is messy. So the neat package pushing a fake Nazi narrative can not accept it. Break out the kleenex. :lol:

Humans have always been on the move. They move into territories and move out when they have to move due to no more resources there to be had or better hunting, fishing, and foraging in some other place. Humans are a very adaptable species. They adapt to cold climates, warm climates, deserts, islands, peninsulas, mountainous regions plains, the heat from humidity to dryness, and cold. To almost every geography known to the world. Humans adapt. They do not stay still. Once they domesticated the horse and the cart and had the wheel and the oxen and the plow....they produced food. The most convenient places to have entire cities filled with diverse travelers and traders were always rivers. That is why Paris, New York City, London, and many other important cities in the Old World and in the New World are near important rivers and bays. Were they pure of race or ethnicity? No. Not from the very foundations. That is a fact. Something the again tunnel vision people out there, have issues with.

African-looking humans and European-looking humans have interbred for thousands of years. Especially in areas of the Middle East and Northern Africa. Egypt was a multiracial society. There were Nubians who were very dark-skinned, Greeks, and many other groups including Coptic-speaking people and recently there has been a cult that worshipped lions that have recently been documented. If one observes the art of the Egyptians the most common phenotype are copper-skinned people with dark eyes and dark hair.

There was an African Queen who was a club-footed queen who defeated Marc Anthony of the Roman Empire fame.

Racial mixing has happened for a very long time. Hittites, Semites, and so on were part of the enslaved peoples used by the Pharaohs. It was common practice for brothers and sisters to marry each other and rule the Nile together.

It is a very interesting history of Northern Africa in Egypt. In Arabic to this day being a despot is called in the Arabic language being Pharaonic. Pharoah means abusive and arrogant. Despotic.


I refuted Zach's argument quite easily. Zach granted that the victims of the Buffalo shooter were black. That contradicts his claims. If he even wanted to be consistent he would have to admit there is no way to determine whether the victims were black. Qed...it was that simple
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