- 22 Mar 2023 13:14
#15269100
Yes, it *is*:
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The terms used in *any* debate are *also* the debate itself.
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Look at what's happened *historically*, with this inclination of yours:
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You're striving to be a *white historian* here, wat0n -- ?
Also, race / desegregation is unavoidably a *social* issue:
ckaihatsu wrote:
You're going off on a tangent -- the original subtopic was about *racism*, which is an *institutional*, top-down social dynamic that has historically had government backing, including the genocide of Native Americans.
wat0n wrote:
No, it's not simply institutional or top-down.
Yes, it *is*:
The Jim Crow laws were state and local laws introduced in the Southern United States in the late 19th and early 20th centuries that enforced racial segregation, "Jim Crow" being a pejorative term for an African-American.[1] Such laws remained in force until the 1960s.[2] Formal and informal segregation policies were present in other areas of the United States as well, even if several states outside the South had banned discrimination in public accommodations and voting.[3][4] Southern laws were enacted by white Southern Democrat-dominated state legislatures to disenfranchise and remove political and economic gains made by African Americans during the Reconstruction era.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws
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wat0n wrote:
You don't get to define the terms we'll use in this debate.
'The terms we'll use in this debate.'
The terms used in *any* debate are *also* the debate itself.
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wat0n wrote:
So is redlining, one of the reasons redlining existed at all was that white residents would riot if they found out they'd have Black neighbors.
ckaihatsu wrote:
You're *defending* white residents' potential to riot, which is *very* problematic.
wat0n wrote:
I'm not justifying anything, I'll let justifications of violence to your camp.
Look at what's happened *historically*, with this inclination of yours:
In the 1870s, Democrats gradually regained power in the Southern legislatures[17] as violent insurgent paramilitary groups, such as the Ku Klux Klan, White League, and Red Shirts disrupted Republican organizing, ran Republican officeholders out of town, and lynched Black voters as an intimidation tactic to suppress the Black vote.[18] Extensive voter fraud was also used. In one instance, an outright coup or insurrection in coastal North Carolina led to the violent removal of democratically elected Republican party executive and representative officials, who were either hunted down or hounded out. Gubernatorial elections were close and had been disputed in Louisiana for years, with increasing violence against black Americans during campaigns from 1868 onward.[19]
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wat0n wrote:
I'm simply pointing out the historically accurate fact that white hostility to the idea of living with black people motivated redlining, and that hostility was bottom-up, not simply top-down.
Politicians willing to avoid trouble would just take the path of least resistance, and that was redlining until the second half of the 20th century. From then onwards, those who didn't want to have Black neighbors could simply pack up their stuff and leave, and many did.
You're striving to be a *white historian* here, wat0n -- ?
Also, race / desegregation is unavoidably a *social* issue:
The desegregation of Boston public schools (1974–1988) was a period in which the Boston Public Schools were under court control to desegregate through a system of busing students. The call for desegregation and the first years of its implementation led to a series of racial protests and riots that brought national attention, particularly from 1974 to 1976. In response to the Massachusetts legislature's enactment of the 1965 Racial Imbalance Act, which ordered the state's public schools to desegregate, W. Arthur Garrity Jr. of the United States District Court for the District of Massachusetts laid out a plan for compulsory busing of students between predominantly white and black areas of the city. The hard control of the desegregation plan lasted for over a decade. It influenced Boston politics and contributed to demographic shifts of Boston's school-age population, leading to a decline of public-school enrollment and white flight to the suburbs. Full control of the desegregation plan was transferred to the Boston School Committee in 1988; in 2013 the busing system was replaced by one with dramatically reduced busing.[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_de ... ing_crisis