[ingliz]

^

Who is this 'the rest of the world'?

[Rancid]

What is the time line that a decision to join or not join will be made by these two nations?

[ingliz]

It should be as quickly as possible as the transition period is likely to be the most dangerous time for them; Finland, especially.

[wat0n]

It would make sense for terms be already decided and agreed to before any announcements are made.

[Wels]

They said a decision will be made in weeks, not months. No further info.

[Rich]

The sensible thing is to move NATO troops into Finland now, then negotiations, discussion can take place at leisure. If for some reason the decision is taken for Finland not to join NATO then the troops can always be withdrawn. But there should be no room for misunderstanding, while the membership process is being undertaken, the country should receive the full protection that a member state would get.

Ambiguity has failed. I would like to see Russia recognise the right of Ukraine, Moldova, Sweden and Finland to join NATO as part of a peace deal. Ideally I'd like to see them give up Kaliningrad in return for recognition of territory in the East. But what ever borders should be finalised so no European country has to go through what Ukraine is going through again.

[Rancid]

The sensible thing is to move NATO troops into Finland now, then negotiations, discussion can take place at leisure. If for some reason the decision is taken for Finland not to join NATO then the troops can always be withdrawn. But there should be no room for misunderstanding, while the membership process is being undertaken, the country should receive the full protection that a member state would get.

Agree, a provisional acceptance should be put in place while official proceedings move forward.

[BlutoSays]

Increasingly difficult? Are you mad?



No nukes are stationed in Eastern Europe.

Tomahawks don't carry nukes. Meanwhile Russia has stationed Iskanders in Kaliningrad and is totally into tactical nukes. Goes without saying that Russia also has a first strike policy.

Try harder, shill.

It really doesn't matter. The Ohio Class subs can reach out and touch anyone from anywhere. You could take out every land based silo with a hypersonic (you wouldn't) and every bomber and it's still moot (that means "it doesn't matter", for those of you in Rio Linda). I imagine TLAMs can carry nukes; it just doesn't make sense not to.

[Rancid]

It's time to express add Ukraine, Finland, and Sweden. Then it's time to load up each of those nations with troops and nuclear war heads.

Fuck Putin, he can suck a dick that piece of shit.

[Unthinking Majority]

It's time to express add Ukraine, Finland, and Sweden. Then it's time to load up each of those nations with troops and nuclear war heads.

Fuck Putin, he can suck a dick that piece of shit.

Litter the entire European/Russian border with mines, burn the map, and then tell them to have a nice life.

[Unthinking Majority]

Putin's erected penis is 3 inches long. He's so stupid you could give him a sack of gold bars for free and when he hears they were mined in America he would try to invade the gold bars because Mr. Grumpy-pants doesn't know how to get over a grudge.

[Rich]

Was Hitler as bad as Putin?

This question has loomed over our discourse since the current crisis broke out in February. When people call Putin "Putler", there''s a clear implication that Hitler might have been as bad as Putin. Now not everyone is comfortable with this question. I suspect people in the Azov formation might not take too kindly to you bringing it up. However I seem to be a natural contrarian and so for me an even more disturbing question has hung over my consciousness. Now its not my intention to upset people, so if you're one of those people who easily gets triggered, if you're one of those people who says "fuck off" every-time someone raises a point you don't like and you lack the intellectual capability to challenge, please stop reading now.

Because I have even dared to ask the question, not just was Hitler as bad as Putin, but could Hitler have possibly have actually been worse than Putin. Again if my questions upsets you, please stop reading now. Questioning whether Hitler was worse than Putin obviously puts one into an extremist, some would say even insane territory. But I have gone even further. I have also dared to ask the question, was Stalin as bad or even worse than Putin. And I've also asked the question, was the Kaiser as bad or even worse than Putin. So you see Sweden didn't join our war against the Kaiser. Finland once independent far from joining the war against the Kaiser invited in German troops.. Finland and Sweden didn't join our war against Hitler. In fact both Sweden and Finland aided Hitler. Sweden and Finland didn't join our alliance against Stalin and the Soviet Union. You see if you ask these questions than a further question arises on Finish and Swedish joining the Western alliance.

Why now?

[Torus34]

This poor old country mouse admits to having difficulty understanding why President Vladimir Putin would wish to drive Finland and Sweden towards NATO membership. Today's [5/15] Pravda makes no mention of Finland and NATO. Tass has a four sentence neutral piece. Neither notes the turning off of electricity.

I do not understand how this benefits Russia.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

[Rancid]

Putin is a fucking moron and deserves to get his imperialistic teeth kicked in. We also have a lot of fucking morons on pofo that support Putin like the pieces of shit they are.

[Politics_Observer]

@Cartertonian

Speaking as a shortly-to-be-retired Army major, I don't think you understand NATO, Istanbuller.

It's very existence is to pool resources in the 'big boys club' precisely to 'protect small countries'. If you or Turkey don't want to play, that suggests you erroneously think NATO is about power-projection. It's not. It's a protective umbrella for Western or Westernised democracies.

So, why on Earth, would Turkey be opposed to Sweden and Finland's membership? Is it because they are playing both sides between Russia and NATO instead of picking a side and sticking to that side? Is this another example of Turkey back stabbing?

[Istanbuller]

@Cartertonian



So, why on Earth, would Turkey be opposed to Sweden and Finland's membership? Is it because they are playing both sides between Russia and NATO instead of picking a side and sticking to that side? Is this another example of Turkey back stabbing?

Turkey, unlike other NATO countries, has a foreign policy independence. We act on our own. We oppose them because both countries are state sponsors of terrorism. This is the official response of Turkey to this.

In my opinion, both countries are unimportant. There are just 15 million people living there. They are not worth to face a possibility of nuclear war with Russia. Nobody would notice any difference if these two countries are wiped out tomorrow. They are unimportant.

[MadMonk]

Sweden's Social Democratic Party, the largest political party in both parliament and the government, a short while ago voted yes to apply for NATO-membership.

Only the Green Party and the Left Party are against submitting the application now (15-20% of all voters perhaps). 200 years of neutrality gone just like that. Can we lobby Turkey to go full crazy? The Croatian president seems like a nutbar also. Maybe he can demand parts of Italy for the deal?

[Rancid]

Putin is realigning Europe. Unfortunately for him the realignment goes against his wishes. Fucking idiot.

[Potemkin]

Putin is realigning Europe. Unfortunately for him the realignment goes against his wishes. Fucking idiot.

Putin is achieving the dream of centuries, and is finally uniting Europe - against himself.

[Politics_Observer]

@Istanbuller

Turkey, unlike other NATO countries, has a foreign policy independence. We act on our own. We oppose them because both countries are state sponsors of terrorism. This is the official response of Turkey to this.

In my opinion, both countries are unimportant. There are just 15 million people living there. They are not worth to face a possibility of nuclear war with Russia. Nobody would notice any difference if these two countries are wiped out tomorrow. They are unimportant.

I don't know if I would call stabbing your allies in the back "foreign policy independence." But of course, Turkey has turned into a dictatorship itself and so has much in common with Putin's Russia. I can't see how these two countries are "state sponsors of terrorism" given that they are democracies who respect such principles as human rights and do not have one man rule systems like Turkey.