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By B0ycey
#14964563
Beren wrote:It seems rather likely the people will be asked once again by a Labour government if what the hell they really want, however, I have no idea what to expect if a Tory government will be elected.


From your source it appears a general election isn't unlikely depending on the mood of the DUP. Although I can't see how they can back Labour as an alternative to a hard Brexit Tory government. This just gives them even more leverage BTW. Better to take the referendum approach and solve this mess now than be pawns of the DUP for the inkling of power.

As for a general election today, it will be a hung parliament with a Labour majority I suspect. But that solves nothing as their strategy is piss poor and they will hit the same hurdles. They are after all asking for the same things.
User avatar
By Beren
#14964573
B0ycey wrote:As for a general election today, it will be a hung parliament with a Labour majority I suspect.

He could form a government in one way or another I guess.

Speaking on the BBC’s Andrew Marr show, Scotland’s first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, said she would seek discussions with other parties, including with Corbyn, when she visits London later this week.

“I listened to him [on Sky] and there’s still an absence of leadership, of Jeremy Corbyn saying what he’d do differently, so if I can help get Labour into a position where we can coalesce, I would be delighted to try and do that,” she said.

Ignoring warnings made by Theresa May’s deputy, David Lidington, that she should support the deal because there were no further options for renegotiation, Sturgeon told Marr: “If the Commons says ‘we want to go down the road of single market/customs union, we want to take this back to the people of the UK in another vote, we need an extension of Article 50’, if there is a clear change of direction, then I believe the EU27 would be prepared to look at that.

“Those who don’t think the prime minister’s deal is the right way to go have now a responsibility to come together and coalesce around an alternative.”

Jeremy Corbyn: second referendum not an option for today

He's geared up for a general election as he makes his stance on Brexit as hard to figure out as he can.


Well, maybe it's not that hard actually. :)
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14964585
Beren wrote:It's no deal, which parliament will not support.



Nonsense - But, parliament also, will not accept MAY's current 'Draft' proposals that she is ready to sign-off with the E.U, thus ignoring parliament, so much for democracy bypassing a 'meaningful' vote.

Suppose a 'meaningful' vote is held before she unilaterally signs off with Brussels?

As I say, parliament would reject the current position as it is, without significant amendments being included, that would then have to be agreed with by the E.U itself.

The referendum result or it's question, did not mention 'BREXIT' at all, so such a vote or 'sign-off', which included any of the 'Four Freedom's in them, such as 'customs union, or 'single market' in particular, would be a pushback or betrayal of the referendum.
Such inclusions are there in the Draft, they would have to both be deleted & voted on by parliament before Brussels(assuming that they will accept them-doubtful).

If she goes back to Brussels, betrays the country, along with it's referendum by signing it off before any vote in parliament it would not be a 'meaningful' vote & parliament itself would still reject it so that it does not come into force.

If it gets through parliament after being signed-off with Brussels, it's simply a questioning of the outcome of the 'Reckoning' at the next general election, that's when judgement day really arrives & the Tory Party will be exposed to an existential crisis not unlike the Liberals are experiencing now.

'NO Deal' is the ONLY true outcome consistent with the referendum result & the rules of the E.U.

How things proceed between the U.K & E.U is a matter for both to be agreed.
User avatar
By ingliz
#14964594
Nonsense wrote:we revert to WTO

That will not be as easy as you think.

There is nothing simple about the UK regaining WTO status post-Brexit.

Example:

current EU - WTO arrangements.

Peter Ungphakorn, former Senior Information Officer with the WTO Secretariat, ICTSD Analysis wrote:We don’t know what most of the EU’s current commitments in the WTO are. The UK would be negotiating a share of key quantities that are unknown. The only confirmed commitments on tariffs, quotas, and farm subsidies are from before 2004 when the EU had 15 member states. The EU has expanded three times since then, but in 12 years it has been unable to agree with the WTO membership on revised commitments.

That in itself is a warning. The UK will be negotiating a share of numbers that are unknown, with no guarantee of agreement.



:lol:
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14964650
Ingliz - That will not be as easy as you think.

There is nothing simple about the UK regaining WTO status post-Brexit.

Example:


Nonsense -

It's pointless painting a picture full of 'difficulties' where there's virtually few in reality.

If we 'Leave' as in LEAVE, without being attached to the customs union, there will be nothing in the way to stop us doing any deals under WTO rules, of which, even a future trade deal with the E.U is not a 'problem'.

We already trade in\out of the E.U trading area, it's no problem at all, as long as any deal is not preferential to particular countries in or out of the E.U, which, itself, collectively & as a bloc already trades under WTO.
User avatar
By ingliz
#14964664
Nonsense wrote:there will be nothing in the way to stop us doing any deals under WTO rules

Difficulties:

19 countries have objected to the UK's proposed tariff quotas. If it got 'political', Russia and Argentina have objected, the UK could be tied up legally through the WTO’s dispute settlement process for years.


:)
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14964678
ingliz wrote:Difficulties:

19 countries have objected to the UK's proposed tariff quotas. If it got 'political', Russia and Argentina have objected, the UK could be tied up legally through the WTO’s dispute settlement process for years.


:)

Nonsense -

As far as I recall, Russia & Argentina objected to the U.Ks proposals with the E.U.

That objection was related to the U.K's deal proposals with the E.U, in respect of import tariff quotas that the E.U have hitherto agreed with the WTO.

The objection is that because of under the E.U-U.K proposals, the E.U would allow the U.K a part of it's current quota's.

Looked at from another global trade agreement related to CO2 for example, different nations are allowed to 'trade' their credits that are earned in one industry, by setting them off against another country's, which, because not environmentally as efficient, would 'buy' credits from the other country.

That means in effect, that overall, the global target total remains the same & in balance.

The EU-UK deal is essentially the same, but I understand Russian & Argentinian objections to it from the political perspective.

That is due to the U.K losing 'friends' around the world through making certain countries look bad in the global community, when, in fact, it's the TORY government that is the 'black sheep' to many other countries.

In general though, that objection is unlikely to be carried, although other countries can frustrate it's progress through to resolution as payback time.


The U.K will have to go through the more lengthy process before it has proper certification under WTO trading Schedules as a result of a failure to reach agreement with the E.U on trade, which will leave it vulnerable to other countries opening disputes under WTO rules against the U.K.

Overall, because most WTO countries always need more economic activity, such as increased exports, a trade deal with the U.K will accordingly be to WTO rules, not that it will stop many other 'friendly' WTO nations also objecting to the inconsistency around the EU-UK arrangements of trading tariffs & quotas.


Theresa MAY thinks the sunshine comes out of her rear, she is mistaken, she is a massive liability to the country, she is TOXIC to the TORY Party's FUTURE in government.

As usual though, they will blame everything on 'Leavers' & the poor.
User avatar
By Albert
#14964681


I do not get, the deal does non of that. Why is she lying so blatantly? It is ridiculous.
User avatar
By colliric
#14964749
Beren wrote:But Brexit must happen because it would be good for the Slavs? :lol:


He lives in Australia....

It will deliver obvious trading benifits for Britain's actual traditional mates.... We get to double deal with Britain and the EU = more influence in negotiations.

Advantage Australia!
User avatar
By colliric
#14964751
Beren wrote:Sure, he does, and cares a lot about it. :lol:


He lives in Newcastle, NSW... Probably 5mins walk from a fucken Aussie Surf beach. Most people would think he was nuts if he decided to go somewhere else not near a Surf Beach after living there.

Only place that is obviously better in Australia is fucken Melbourne.
User avatar
By Beren
#14964752
colliric wrote:He lives in Newcastle, NSW...

Wherever he lives it's not his country, and never will be it seems.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14964755
Igor Antunov wrote:She's doing everything in her power to derail the possibility of Brexit.



Nonsense - Because she is a lying 'remainer'.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14964862
The 'leadership challenge' against Theresa MAY, appears not to have the 48 names necessary to make a challenge at this time.

However, it is a 'red herring', because it doesn't matter if those 'rebels' as they have been dubbed, vote alongside the Labour Party, SNP, DUP against the 'Deal' in parliament.
Should she lose,(she will probably lose)then she is toast, no matter if she blames everyone in the country for sabotaging her 'deal'.

She will have to fall on her sword, because the 'confidence-supply' deal with the DUP will be dead in the water if she fails to go.

She will no longer get any business through the Commons, because the DUP will not want to lose face by continuing to back her government.

The saga has more life in it yet, it is only the end of the beginning.
User avatar
By noemon
#14964975
Britain is now in panic mode, held hostage by a foolish plan gone really really bad.

Theresa May has been cornered by her own party, which is plotting to get rid of her. She is mocked by the opposition and laughed at by the EU.

The only option left open to her is to try to win the hearts, or perhaps the underbellies, of voters, by finding an uncomplicated and easy-to-repeat narrative to justify her version of Brexit. The problem is that panic and politics aren’t a good mix.

If the worst comes to the worst, I can go back to Italy. British-born people, on the other hand, have no plan B.
Populist promises such as the one she made this morning to stop EU migrants “jumping the queue” spread resentment towards European citizens like me. Not only did we play no part in this mess, but we work here legally and contribute to the country in many different ways. We did not “jump the queue” but exercised the same general right of freedom of movement that allows British people to work in Berlin and Paris, or retire in Spain. Even so, our reward seems to be an increasingly hostile atmosphere, and infinite red tape when we attempt to apply for permanent residency to set our minds at rest.

I was born and grew up in Sicily and moved to London in 1996 shortly after I turned 20 years old.

I’ve put down roots here, made friends and created a wonderful family. Since I started working as a photographer I’ve paid my taxes and national insurance contributions and jumped no queues whatsoever. No, I’ve earned the benefits I enjoy – a happy and constructive existence in London – through sheer hard work.

Corbyn claims EU will be willing to renegotiate Brexit deal at 11th hour - as it happened
Read more
Since the referendum in 2016 I have noticed an alarming increase in both veiled and more explicit verbal abuse based on my nationality and my Mediterranean appearance. Living life in the face of this stigma is not always easy, but I have enough resources to stand my ground, and thanks to the broad support I receive from friends and colleagues I have the luxury of brushing nasty comments off with irony and a lot of sarcasm. However, this rise in anti-European feeling needs to be addressed and stopped, because it will end in people getting hurt.

The dog-whistling May did this morning achieves the exact opposite. It will give permission to any members of the general public who feel that we European citizens are not welcome here to bully, hassle us, or worse.

I believe that in the years ahead, as Brexit is exposed as a false solution and times become hard, there will need to be a scapegoat, someone to point at. May is laying the ground for that someone to be an innocent European national living in the UK.

I confess that I am shocked by the lack of a strong political counter-narrative to this xenophobia, with the exception of London’s mayor, Sadiq Khan, who has been active in stressing the importance of EU nationals living in his city, and explaining how strength and growth is founded on pluralism.

Finally I find it strange that we are viewed with condescension even by the most liberal minds in this country. I’m often told: “Ah, you’ll be alright, you’ve been here for many years.” Many British people assume that as an Italian living in the UK I am only concerned about my future here. That is a worry, I suppose. But I have a broader perspective – I am worried for Britain as a whole.

What I am witnessing is the country I have chosen to live in taking a wrong turn. I am left with a feeling of deep disappointment in British institutions and British political common sense. I remember how my British friends used to mock Italy for electing Silvio Berlusconi as prime minister, and I loved the fact that I lived in a country that recognised how surreal Italian politics was. Honest, correct sensible Britain on the one hand and crazy, foolish corrupted Italy on the other.

Unfortunately the landscape has changed. If the worst comes to the worst, I can still go back to the crazy corrupted Italy we all loved to take the mickey out of. British-born people without another nationality, on the other hand, have no plan B. They are the ones who will be forced to deal with an unrecognisable Britain, bitter and corrupted, the victims of an Etonian gamble gone very wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... mped-queue
By layman
#14965074
Given the pathetic failure to start a leadership challenge, I expect the brexiteers to turn in each other soon. This is what “revolutionary’s” do once their ideals prove unworkable.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14965142
layman wrote:Given the pathetic failure to start a leadership challenge, I expect the brexiteers to turn in each other soon. This is what “revolutionary’s” do once their ideals prove unworkable.


Nonsense -
I beg to differ, it is irrelevant, the thing that really matters is the democratic process in parliament, for which the government will lose the 'meaningful' vote & Theresa MAY will lose her political 'leadership'(if that's what you call it)over it.
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