[Besoeker]

Yes, I do. However, you refuse to accept it.

Then it should be no problem for you to state it.
Care to do so in your own words?

[MememyselfandIJK]

Yes, I do. However, you refuse to accept it.

Show me.

I am very interested to see this incontrovertible, testable, repeatable, objective evidence. Philosophers say proving God's existence is impossible; the supernatural is not testable.

Definition of Fact (From Merriam-Webster https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fact)

3:  the quality of being actual
:  actuality a question of fact hinges on evidence
4 a:  something that has actual existence space exploration is now a fact
b:  an actual occurrence prove the fact of damage
5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality These are the hard facts of the case.

Last time I checked, deities do not "have the quality of being actual," or have "an objective reality" (rather subjective aren't they? ).

Please pack your facts next time you debate someone.

@ingliz, @Besoeker I got your back comrades.

E l/r -10, L/A -9

[Hindsite]

Then it should be no problem for you to state it.
Care to do so in your own words?

I already told you that I do not have my own words. And I have also given reference to the scientific proof of the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... ium-oviedo

[Godstud]

The shroud of Turin is just evidence of some guy who died a long time ago, who died in a similar fashion as "Jesus". That's all it is evidence of. You adding more to it, is your opinion on the matter, and has nothing to do with facts.

Ingliz is right. You're a poe.

[Hindsite]

The shroud of Turin is just evidence of some guy who died a long time ago, who died in a similar fashion as "Jesus". That's all it is evidence of. You adding more to it, is your opinion on the matter, and has nothing to do with facts.

Ingliz is right. You're a poe.

The Shroud Of Turin

[Godstud]

I'll be just like you and post a stupid youtube video.

[MememyselfandIJK]

I already told you that I do not have my own words. And I have also given reference to the scientific proof of the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... ium-oviedo

That is a fake. One of the long term causes of the Protestant Reformation was the church's selling of woodchips and pieces of cloth, and claiming that they dated back to Jeebus's death, just to raise money.

Study your own history

[Hindsite]

That is a fake. One of the long term causes of the Protestant Reformation was the church's selling of woodchips and pieces of cloth, and claiming that they dated back to Jeebus's death, just to raise money.

Study your own history

Science Explains Shroud Image

[Besoeker]

Science Explains Shroud Image

Centuries later, in the 1980s, radiocarbon dating, which measures the rate at which different isotopes of the carbon atoms decay, suggested the shroud was made between A.D. 1260 and A.D. 1390, lending credence to the notion that it was an elaborate fake created in the Middle Ages. (Isotopes are forms of an element with a different number of neutrons.)

Then we have this:

So geologists have argued that an earthquake at Jesus' death could have released a burst of neutrons. The neutron burst not only would have thrown off the radiocarbon dating but also would have led to the darkened imprint on the shroud.

"Could have" is the language of speculation, not proof.
I'd say "nice try" - except it isn't.

http://www.livescience.com/52567-shroud ... n-dna.html

[Hindsite]

Then we have this:
"Could have" is the language of speculation, not proof.
I'd say "nice try" - except it isn't.

http://www.livescience.com/52567-shroud ... n-dna.html

We know that the carbon dating done in 1988 was wrong because of contamination. We know now that the area they cut from the corner of the Shroud was a portion that had been repaired by weaving cotton thread to the linen threads of the shroud and the cotton dyed to match the old linen. So the Carbon dating has been invalidated.

Anyway, I told you that you refuse to accept the proof, because you don't want to believe the truth. If you really don't want to learn, then there is no reason for you to ask me questions. Just believe any lie you want to for you have plenty of liars that will help you do that. You can continue to worship your border collie, if that pleases you.

Praise the Lord.
HalleluYah

[Besoeker]

Anyway, I told you that you refuse to accept the proof, because you don't want to believe the truth.

You haven't provided proof.

[Godstud]

[ingliz]

proof

Proof of what? That Jesus was a pathologically malformed individual (the arms are too long and of different lengths) with a brain the size of a chimpanzee.

calculations confirm that the brain volume of the shroud image would have been well below human norms, and in the range of ancient Homo erectus.

[Hindsite]

Proof of what? That Jesus was a pathologically malformed individual (the arms are too long and of different lengths) with a brain the size of a chimpanzee.

The scientists did not make the determination that Jesus had a brain the size of a Chimpanzee. I believe you must have just made that up. They also did not determine that the Shroud indicated any type of physical malformation. The joints were separated as would be expected from hours of hanging on the cross and because of the x-ray characteristics of the image that was produced on the linen burial shroud, which made it difficult to determine where the bones of the fingers and hand were separated. They determined that it was the image of a real person that was beaten, whipped, and crucified in exactly the same manner as Jesus, according to the scripture accounts.

One of the other things that indicates the Shroud image is a real Roman crucifixion is the location of the nails in the upper part of the hand, what we call the wrist today, instead of the middle of the hand as is pictured in all the paintings before the Shroud.

Praise the Lord.
HalleluYah

[MememyselfandIJK]

The scientists did not make the determination that Jesus had a brain the size of a Chimpanzee. I believe you must have just made that up.

Jeebus Christ, its a joke. He didn't really mean that. He must of had a decent IQ or else he couldn't have tricked so many people in a false belief system.

They also did not determine that the Shroud indicated any type of physical malformation. The joints were separated as would be expected from hours of hanging on the cross and because of the x-ray characteristics of the image that was produced on the linen burial shroud, which made it difficult to determine where the bones of the fingers and hand were separated. They determined that it was the image of a real person that was beaten, whipped, and crucified in exactly the same manner as Jesus, according to the scripture accounts.

Praise the Lord.
HalleluYah

There is also the possibility that it is a fake. The church is notorious for selling fake pieces of the cross or your idol's clothing.

[Godstud]

Fake News Has Its Historical Origin In Christian Fundamentalism
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fak ... fdf6197284

[MememyselfandIJK]

Fake News Has Its Historical Origin In Christian Fundamentalism
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fak ... fdf6197284

Sounds about right. Christianity itself is fake news on steroids.

[Hindsite]

There is also the possibility that it is a fake. The church is notorious for selling fake pieces of the cross or your idol's clothing.

All the scientists that examined and tested it say it is not a fake. So the possibility of it being a fake has been ruled out already. And the Roman Catholic Church had no control of the Shroud until it was recently willed to the Pope from the family of the Knight that brought it back after the crusades. The leadership of the Roman Catholic Church has always wanted to deny that it is genuine, but they have too many Christian believers to dismiss it. The leadership was very happy with the original dating that seemed to show that it was a fake. But now that we know that dating was contaminated they have finally done new dating that puts it during the time of Jesus. See below:

The shroud made news again last week right before Easter when a research team from Padua University used carbon dating and concluded that the artifact is not a medieval fake, as some had previously suspected, but dates back to somewhere between 280 B.C. and A.D. 220.

Giulio Fanti, an associate professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at Padua University, conducted the tests, by analyzing fibers from the shroud with infrared lights, which allowed him to measure radiation intensity through wavelengths.

"We carried out three alternative dating tests on the shroud, two chemical and one mechanical, and they all gave the same result and they all traced back to the date of Jesus, with a possible margin of error of 250 years," Fanti told CNN.

The 14-foot long piece of cloth, which shows the imprints of a man with long hair and a bearded face, as well as markings indicating nailed feet and hands, has caused a lot of talk in both the scientific and Christian communities. The latest carbon dating findings might be the strongest evidence that the shroud was indeed used in the time-period of Jesus' death, but whether the imprints truly belong to Christ will be harder to prove.

Pope Francis' remarks are in line with the Roman Catholic Church's general position on the shroud, the Blaze noted. Catholics have remained neutral on the subject of the shroud's authenticity, leaving it up to scientific research, but insists that that the cloth still serves as an important symbol of Christians' faith.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/pope- ... ity-93047/

[Besoeker]

The shroud made news again last week right before Easter when a research team from Padua University used carbon dating and concluded that the artifact is not a medieval fake, as some had previously suspected, but dates back to somewhere between 280 B.C. and A.D. 220.

Giulio Fanti, an associate professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at Padua University, conducted the tests, by analyzing fibers from the shroud with infrared lights, which allowed him to measure radiation intensity through wavelengths.

"We carried out three alternative dating tests on the shroud, two chemical and one mechanical, and they all gave the same result and they all traced back to the date of Jesus, with[b] a possible margin of error of 250 years," Fanti told CNN.7/

You stated " the scientific proof of the Shroud of Turin"
And now you are citing an article with a possible margin of 250 years???
Actually, it's ± 250 years.
The mean of which would put it at 30BC. If relevant.
So, not only does that not pinpoint it to the suggested date of the crusifixion, it gives not the slightest clue as to who the victim was.
To quote Ricky Gervais.......

[ingliz]

He didn't really mean that

In non pathological H. sapiens the EQ (Encephalization Quotient) is in the area of 4.5 to 5.0. Using the method for calculating EQ in Ruff, E. et al. (Nature 387: 173-176) the EQ for the shroud figure is 2.6. Achieving a value anywhere close to that of modern man is not possible given the dimensions of the figure on the cloth.