- 11 Jun 2013 23:01
#14252595
Would Libertarians give up their currently recognised property for Libertarianism? As I understand it, according to the NAP any property acquired through violation of the NAP is not legitimate property. When the thief (and maybe murderer and all sorts of other crimes) sells that property it does not become legitimate. Any product from a farm or factory built on that stolen property or using that property as raw materials, transporting inputs and outputs across stolen land etc etc, is it self illegitimate property. Can we not assume that all property is illegitimate beyond all reasonable doubt. So morally no one has any right to currently recognised property?
Now personally I would go further and say that ones very self is itself a product based on illegitimate property. An individual does not just spring into life fully formed like Athena. An individual requires parents and ancestors and a culture and society to be born into and grow up. The idea of self ownership seems to me utterly preposterous. I can't imagine how anyone could be so intellectually lacking to even consider the idea. Of course self ownership like private property generally might make sense as a pragmatic, every day working assumption. Its just as philosophical, moral absolute it seem banal. And this is without taking into account that ancestors might have some moral claim against their off spring. In fact to be honest I could never quite workout what the relationship of the Libertarian system is to planet Earth. I'm sure there must be one.
But anyway just suppose us, the Communalists and other malcontents were willing to give up their claims and demands on your individual selves would Libertarians be prepared to give up what property the currently constituted governments now recognise in order to live in a Libertarian world. You see I've noticed that all ideological groups always want others to make sacrifices, either in what they control or in what they claim. The Zionists want the Palestinians to give up their claims and for their neighbours to give up their weapons programmes. The Palestinians want Israel to relinquish control which is under no immediate threat of loss. Even my clearly superior solution of the Palestinians being given a homeland in South Texas and the current population being relocated and compensated by the American government involves someone else making sacrifices not me. The Communists want the Bourgeoisie to have their property taken away. The small government Republicans want the poor and unemployed to lose their welfare. I don't claim to be any different I support Copyright but oppose Patents, which is quite convenient because I'm writing and plan to continue to write software. If the Democratic government was to disappear I personally would be prepared to use unlimited violence to protect my copy right but to stop the extraction of involuntary patent revenue.
So would you be willing to give up all your current property and your passport (citizenship) for the wonders of Libertarianism, just keeping your ill gotten self? Or are you yet another group for who conveniently morality requires that others make all the sacrifices?
Now personally I would go further and say that ones very self is itself a product based on illegitimate property. An individual does not just spring into life fully formed like Athena. An individual requires parents and ancestors and a culture and society to be born into and grow up. The idea of self ownership seems to me utterly preposterous. I can't imagine how anyone could be so intellectually lacking to even consider the idea. Of course self ownership like private property generally might make sense as a pragmatic, every day working assumption. Its just as philosophical, moral absolute it seem banal. And this is without taking into account that ancestors might have some moral claim against their off spring. In fact to be honest I could never quite workout what the relationship of the Libertarian system is to planet Earth. I'm sure there must be one.
But anyway just suppose us, the Communalists and other malcontents were willing to give up their claims and demands on your individual selves would Libertarians be prepared to give up what property the currently constituted governments now recognise in order to live in a Libertarian world. You see I've noticed that all ideological groups always want others to make sacrifices, either in what they control or in what they claim. The Zionists want the Palestinians to give up their claims and for their neighbours to give up their weapons programmes. The Palestinians want Israel to relinquish control which is under no immediate threat of loss. Even my clearly superior solution of the Palestinians being given a homeland in South Texas and the current population being relocated and compensated by the American government involves someone else making sacrifices not me. The Communists want the Bourgeoisie to have their property taken away. The small government Republicans want the poor and unemployed to lose their welfare. I don't claim to be any different I support Copyright but oppose Patents, which is quite convenient because I'm writing and plan to continue to write software. If the Democratic government was to disappear I personally would be prepared to use unlimited violence to protect my copy right but to stop the extraction of involuntary patent revenue.
So would you be willing to give up all your current property and your passport (citizenship) for the wonders of Libertarianism, just keeping your ill gotten self? Or are you yet another group for who conveniently morality requires that others make all the sacrifices?