[Tribbles]

This is the biggest collection of high-quality videoes I have ever seen on Italian Fascism on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ww2ItalianNewsreels

Ill link to this one, just to annoy Rei:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT1r9871wBw&list=PL534BBC9679F00172&index=31&feature=plpp_video

[Rei Murasame]

Hey, it's one of those Duomos! I like how that guy on the right hand side seems to almost be thinking, "What is that priest doing and why am I here?"

How many 'Duomos' are there anyway? No one can figure out which one is which.

[Section Leader]

Subscribed.

Looks awesome.

[Rei Murasame]

I'm surprised that we're the only two who have done so yet. The rest of PoFo's right seems to be stepping around this thread on tip-toes?

[Section Leader]

I'm surprised that we're the only two who have done so yet. The rest of PoFo's right seems to be stepping around this thread on tip-toes?

All the others are asleep at this ungodly hour.

I'm awake because I'm a vampire.

[Far-Right Sage]

The rest of us are actually market liberals with a conservative Christian streak, Rei.

This personally offends my sensibilities.

[Rei Murasame]

The rest of us are actually market liberals with a conservative Christian streak, Rei.

Oh, no, I wasn't saying that, I was just trying to get people to post in the thread.

[Fasces]

There needs to be a separation between officers and the peasants.

Interesting videos, however.

[Tribbles]

I cant subscribe on anything, I don`t have a youtube-account. For some reason I don`t seem to want one.

But it is fun to watch, even without a account.

[Figlio di Moros]

Meh, not a fan of Italian fascism. Some good theorists behind it, but Mussolini's Italy itself was an utter failure.

[Far-Right Sage]

Well, it is easy to look at the derailment caused by the war and exclaim failure, but I would be so bold as to say that pre-war, Mussolini's Italy was on a better path than any European state had been in quite some time. I feel a lot of history is unfairly critical with the benefit of hindsight and allows the outcome of the Second World War's European theatre to entirely define "success" internal and external, and what constitutes success. To me, this is just as irrational as junior historians labeling Hitler an "idiot" for Operation Barbarossa despite the fact that every British and American official of rank considered the Russians toast. Mussolini was praised as one of the greatest of European revolutionaries at the time, not just by Hitler, but people as diverse as Churchill, David Lloyd George, Gandhi, and Thomas Edison.

[Rei Murasame]

Yep, basically we should be careful not to let the post-war liberal propaganda distort these facts. Usually it can be hard to resist falling in line because all of the propaganda has decided to re-cast Mussolini as some sort of crazy person, but that's what they always try to do to their opponents.

[starman2003]

Well, it is easy to look at the derailment caused by the war and exclaim failure, but I would be so bold as to say that pre-war, Mussolini's Italy was on a better path than any European state had been in quite some time.

I dunno. I've seen posters say that Mussolini was too wimpy. A real revolutionary would've gone much farther; like Stalin he should've purged his country of those who weren't really "with it" like monarchists and holy joes.

I feel a lot of history is unfairly critical with the benefit of hindsight and allows the outcome of the Second World War's European theatre to entirely define "success" internal and external, and what constitutes success.

The raison d'etre of fascism is to strengthen the State vis a vis others. I'm afraid I'm with Figlio on this. It speaks volumes about Italian fascism that Italian soldiers surrendered in droves without a fight.

To me, this is just as irrational as junior historians labeling Hitler an "idiot" for Operation Barbarossa despite the fact that every British and American official of rank considered the Russians toast.

Hitler himself once admitted he never would've attacked Russia had he believed the (accurate) figures for Soviet tank production in Achtung Panzer! Kalkhin Gol should've led to reassessment; if the new Russia could beat Japan, which the tsarist one failed to do, maybe it could stand up to the reich too.

[Tribbles]

I dunno. I've seen posters say that Mussolini was too wimpy. A real revolutionary would've gone much farther; like Stalin he should've purged his country of those who weren't really "with it" like monarchists and holy joes..

To be a fascist means that one believe in the outcome of the political processes that took place in Italy in 1922, and the other regimes that copied that system later.

If you only support one of the groups involved in the process (like the futurists, the conservatives, the syndicalists, etcetera) then you are not a fascist, but remains within the box of that particular group.

Fascism as a finished doctrine is the result of negotiations and compromises between those groups. This national-stalinist nostalgia-thing has nothing to do with fascism, it is made by Russian teenage-brats. It is a blind alley.

The raison d'etre of fascism is to strengthen the State vis a vis others. I'm afraid I'm with Figlio on this. It speaks volumes about Italian fascism that Italian soldiers surrendered in droves without a fight.

Off course they did, and it was the right thing to do - Mussolini had betrayed fascism. He imported foreign, German ideas, allied himself with a man that had killed another fascist leader, and planned to kill two more, attacked one himself, he tossed corporatism out of the window, he planned to betray other elements of the fascist alliance - namely the king and the church.

Why fight for a traitor?

[Figlio di Moros]

What does the murder or invasion of a fascist nation have to do with Italy? He failed along every front in every war he fought, and I doubt, given time, his economy would ever have placed Italy on par with the other powers. Mussolini's Italy was a sham of an operation, and the cowardice of the Italian people is a testimony to that. My grandfather was Sicilian and Calabrese by blood, as with many Italian-Americans of the time, and can a single person doubt that the same blood in America was five-fold as valient as in Italy itself?

I'm sorry, but this veneration of Mussolini needs some backing, because I can't see a single way Fascist Italy deserves emolation.

[Far-Right Sage]

Holding up the poor performance of the Italian military as a symbol of Fascism's failure is ridiculous, because they performed just as poorly if not moreso in the First World War.

It was a failure of the clannish nature of Italian society which stressed the village above the region and the region above all, including the fatherland, and its unindustrialized nature and technological backwardness. Italy was just a poor, relatively weak country and the Second World War did everything to derail any progress on that front, ironically for what it was needed most.

[Tribbles]

What does the murder or invasion of a fascist nation have to do with Italy? He failed along every front in every war he fought, and I doubt, given time, his economy would ever have placed Italy on par with the other powers. Mussolini's Italy was a sham of an operation, and the cowardice of the Italian people is a testimony to that..

Don`t judge them for loosing a war that needed to be lost. Getting enrolled in an army that is sent out to destroy Europe... surrendering is the right course of action.

And they didn't loose everything: The Italians fought well in Spain, and they colonized Ethiopia. They succeeded were they wanted to succeed. Italian causalities in WWII were just those unlucky souls that were pushed into harms way without getting their chance to surrender.

On regionalism, I have actually heard that the PNF encouraged pride in regional differences and traditions. Why not? But I`m not a fan of those Lega Nord guys that wants to split Italy in two though, separating the North from the South. They all speak Italian, and have been the same nation since the 1800th century.

[Far-Right Sage]

Tribbles, stop this silliness.

Don`t judge them for loosing a war that needed to be lost. Getting enrolled in an army that is sent out to destroy Europe... surrendering is the right course of action.

Destroy Europe? It was the only force capable and charged with the historic duty of liberating European soil inch by inch from the stench of liberal filth and all the associated monstrous systems of economic and social slavery they had shamed the face of the continent with.

[Tribbles]

The loss to liberalism have happened very gradually. Party due to failures and weaknesses within the authoritarian-traditionalist camp.

Its not all about WWII

[Far-Right Sage]

Yes, but denigrating those who truly worked and fought for a better Europe only does shame to that most righteous and paramount of aims - strangling liberalism in the cancerous womb from which it was birthed.