[eon]

This is pretty elaborate just to say you don't like jews.

[wat0n]

Everybody had a choice in Spain: he could become a good Christian or else...

Repeat it all you want, it won't be true. You don't really have a choice if you're being coerced.

But people, who were victims of Hebrews, had no choice or chance... unless they were small girls:

What? But I thought the AT is a book of fairy tales. Remember from the other thread?

Not even the clans of Levis and Cohens descend from the same biblical male (though they have to preserve their "blood purity"), and that proves that the AT is a book of fairy tales.

What to Medieval Spain, well, most Pagans, followers of different non-Christian cults, Muslims and Jews decided to become good Christians, and they are what we today call Spaniards.

Even genetic studies show that many Spaniards have oriental haplogroups.

The fact that many Spaniards have oriental haplogroups is irrelevant - it doesn't change the fact that those who stayed were discriminated and that the Moriscos were expelled.

Well, some of Jews cheated, that was the reason why they were persecuted.

Many of the persecuted were Christians with Jewish ancestors.

But that is nothing special, the former Pagans and followers of any non-Christian cult were treated the same way.

But we hear only Jews whining about their persecution in Spain, and that is racism.

You don't see many Pagans in today's Europe, do you?

Many Jews believe that they deserve special treatment, which is the reason why they never talk about the persecution of non-Jews in Spain, which was due to the intolerant Abrahamitic religion, infiltrated into Spain by a Hebrew sect, called Christians.

I just talked about the persecution of Moriscos there.

Again, you are comparing apples and lemons. Romans or Spaniards are terms that describe people who lived in these states, not their religious affiliations.

"Romans" as in "the Roman Empire".

Can't you see that your statement does not make any sense?

The Empire of Rome adopted Christianity as its official religion, and banned heresy from 380 onwards.

It seems that your racist mindset blinds you so much that you really believe that Jews were a race...

I never claimed such a thing. But I understand your need to argue that I did, you need to make up some of my arguments so you can set your strawman up. That's what some people do when they have no arguments.

Romans, that spread this Hebrew religions, were followers of Hebrew sects.

Exactly, hence you can't claim that the Jews did so.

Yes, "credited" by uneducated journalists.

And most of contemporary scientific community.

Your analogy is a straw-man, because the Wright Brothers never lobbied for misusing of their invention against civilians.

Jews and Hebrews never lobbied for the forced conversion of European Pagans to Christianity. Hence, this argument is invalid.

The Old Testament is a book, written by Hebrews, and Hebrew sects (Christians and Jews) were eager to spread this book across Europe.

How can you misuse this book?

You misuse this book if you reject it!

And what can we find in this book?

Well, an excuse to commit genocides.

You can just imagine that you are "chosen" (a new Jew), and that your adversaries are "Canaanaties", and that your god wants them to be killed.

That was exactly what some Christians did.

Were these Christians misusing the Hebrew Scriptures?

Yes or No?

As we see, the Hebrew scriptures instigated genocides in the past and even today.

Zionists also believe that they are "chosen", and that the native Semites that live in Palestine can be ethnically cleansed.

Are Zionists misusing the Hebrew Scriptures?

Yes or No?

What does this have to do with your argument? The USSR was itself based in a great deal on German philosophy, does it mean Germans are to blame for the USSR's misdeeds?

[ArtAllm]

ArtAlm, you should write a book about your struggle against the wily Jews.

I do not struggle against decent people who happened to be Jews.

I struggle against the ugly ideology of Zionism, which is (according to UNO-voting) a racist ideology.

I am too busy to struggle against bigoted authors of threads, like "The West should support Israel's Zionism"... in their struggle against the "wily Muslims", I do not nave any time to write books.

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=123914&start=280

There are thousands of threads and books (written or initiated by Zionists) that instigate hate against Muslims.

But Zionists still whine about hate against them.

Why should hate-filled people, like the authors of the anti - Muslim threads, deserve love?

As you sow so shall you reap!

[ArtAllm]

What? But I thought the AT is a book of fairy tales. Remember from the other thread?

Zionists still believe in these fairy tales, they justify their right to "return" to Palestine with these fairy tales.

Tell me what fairy tales you believe in, and I tell you who you are.

The fact that many Spaniards have oriental haplogroups is irrelevant...

It IS relevant.

Quote ArtAllm:
"Well, some of Jews cheated, that was the reason why they were persecuted".
------

Many of the persecuted were Christians with Jewish ancestors.

It is irrelevant, if their ancestors were Pagans, Muslims or Jews, they were punished because they cheated.

If somebody was caught worshiping Jupiter or Allah, he was also punished.

But the Zionist controlled media does not care about anybody, except people with "Jewish ancestors", because they need to upheld the image of exceptional and eternal "Jewish suffering".

You don't see many Pagans in today's Europe, do you?

Well, that is the best prove that Pagans were the real victims of history, not the Jews.



Zionists whine about the persecution of Jews, but Jews are still there, and most of them love to live in countries they are/were persecuted in...

ArtAllm:
"Romans, that spread this Hebrew religions, were followers of Hebrew sects".
-----
Exactly, hence you can't claim that the Jews did so.

It seems that you have watched too many Hollywood pictures, instead of reading serious books on history.

You do not know the difference between the terms "Hebrews" and "Jews".

There were many different Hebrew sects and tribes in the Roman Empire, like the Pharisees and the Christians.

The religious descendants of the Pharisees created what we today call "Talmudic" or "Rabbinic Judaism", and the adherents of this religion (and even their non-religious descendants) are today called "Jews".

So there were no Jews (in proper sense) in the Roman Empire, there were different Hebrew sects, like Hebrew Christians and Hebrew Pharisees, that gave birth to Christianity and Judaism.

In the medieval translations of the Bible the word "Hebrews" and "Israelites" was replaced with the word "Jews", and that confuses simple minded persons who get their world vision from Hollywood pictures and the distorted translation of the Bible.

At first the values of the Pharisees developed through their sectarian debates with the Sadducees; then they developed through internal, non-sectarian debates over the law as an adaptation to life without the Temple, and life in exile, and eventually, to a more limited degree, life in conflict with Christianity.

These shifts mark the transformation of Pharasaic to Rabbinic Judaism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisees

Jews and Hebrews never lobbied for the forced conversion of European Pagans to Christianity.

That is a silly statement, because every educated person knows that Christianity originated as a Hebrew sect, that Paul was a Hebrew, and that Hebrew Christians believed that all people must become Christians.

People who converted to this Hebrew religion later introduced a forced conversion to their Hebrew religion.

They acted like Moses, who could not tolerate any other religion.
Intolerance is the essence of all oriental religions.

Early Christianity was a Hebrew Religion, and only racists would divide the early Christians into "biological Hebrews" and "religious Hebrews".

They all believed that they are descendants of Hebrew Christians, like today Jews still believe that they are descendants of ancient Pharisees.

In 392 A.D. the emperor Theodosius I instituted a law making Christianity the only legal religion of the empire[1], and forbidding Pagan practices by law:

"It is Our will that all the peoples who are ruled by the administration of Our Clemency shall practice that religion which the divine Peter the Apostle transmitted to the Romans....

The rest, whom We adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retribution of Our own initiative"

(Codex Theodosianus XVI 1.2.).

This law lead to the destruction of most pagan temples in the empire, and contributed largely to the demise of Paganism[2].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversion

The USSR was itself based in a great deal on German philosophy, does it mean Germans are to blame for the USSR's misdeeds?

What "German philosophy" are you talking about?

Marxism?

Was Bolshevism really a product of German Philosophy?

You have to prove that!

[wat0n]

Zionists still believe in these fairy tales, they justify their right to "return" to Palestine with these fairy tales.

Tell me what fairy tales you believe in, and I tell you who you are.

Largely irrelevant for the argument. We're not talking about Zionists in here. But it seems you do believe in these fairy tales when it suits you - to bash Hebrews, of course.

It IS relevant.

Repeating it like a parrot won't make it so.

It is irrelevant, if their ancestors were Pagans, Muslims or Jews, they were punished because they cheated.

If somebody was caught worshiping Jupiter or Allah, he was also punished.

But the Zionist controlled media does not care about anybody, except people with "Jewish ancestors", because they need to upheld the image of exceptional and eternal "Jewish suffering".

Wrong. It was assumed they were crypto-Jews based solely on the fact that they had Jewish ancestors, and this assumption was used to justify the discrimination against them. Just like Moriscos were assumed to be crypto-Muslims for having Muslim ancestors, and were expelled for that.

Well, that is the best prove that Pagans were the real victims of history, not the Jews.

Zionists whine about the persecution of Jews, but Jews are still there, and most of them love to live in countries they are/were persecuted in...

Or perhaps it means they were both persecuted at different points of time, and the Jews were able to hold onto their culture and identity for whatever reason.

It seems that you have watched too many Hollywood pictures, instead of reading serious books on history.

You do not know the difference between the terms "Hebrews" and "Jews".

There were many different Hebrew sects and tribes in the Roman Empire, like the Pharisees and the Christians.

The religious descendants of the Pharisees created what we today call "Talmudic" or "Rabbinic Judaism", and the adherents of this religion (and even their non-religious descendants) are today called "Jews".

So there were no Jews (in proper sense) in the Roman Empire, there were different Hebrew sects, like Hebrew Christians and Hebrew Pharisees, that gave birth to Christianity and Judaism.

In the medieval translations of the Bible the word "Hebrews" and "Israelites" was replaced with the word "Jews", and that confuses simple minded persons who get their world vision from Hollywood pictures and the distorted translation of the Bible.

Irrelevant - it doesn't change the fact that most of the spread of Christianity in Europe was done by the Roman Empire.

That is a silly statement, because every educated person knows that Christianity originated as a Hebrew sect, that Paul was a Hebrew, and that Hebrew Christians believed that all people must become Christians.

Largely irrelevant, they could believe whatever they wanted, it doesn't prove that they lobbied in the Roman Empire for the forced conversion of everyone to Christianity.

People who converted to this Hebrew religion later introduced a forced conversion to their Hebrew religion.

Exactly, it wasn't Hebrews or Jews who did this, hence they can't be held responsible for it.

What "German philosophy" are you talking about?

Marxism?

Was Bolshevism really a product of German Philosophy?

You have to prove that!

Marx and Engels were German philosophers.

Lenin and the Bolsheviks based their ideology and philosophy in a great deal on Marx.

Hence, Lenin and Bolsheviks based their ideology and philosophy in a great deal on German philosophy.

The USSR was ideologically based on Bolshevism.

Thus, the USSR was ideologically based in a great deal on German philosophy

Since you're making the argument that Hebrews are responsible for whatever Christians do for inventing Christianity, it follows from this logic that Germans are responsible in a great deal for whatever the Soviets did because their ideology was based in a great deal on German philosophy.

It must be cool to live in an imaginary world with no State responsibility.

[ArtAllm]

Marx and Engels were German philosophers.

Wow!



Marx was a German, and Marxism is a German philosophy.

Was Einstein also a German? Were all these German scientists, who moved to the USA, Germans or Jews?

If Marx was a German, then there were no Jews who lived in Europe, they were Germans, Russians or Poles.

According to your logic Europeans just persecuted each other, no Jews were involved.

Why do we have to pay money to Israel, if no Israeli citizen was persecuted in Germany or other European countries?



Your argumentation is silly.

You bend the definition "Jews" like you want, in order do serve your agenda.

On the one hand you say that Jews were persecuted by non-Jews, and non-Jews have to pay compensations to Jews.

On the other hand Jews who invented Communism (like Marx, Zetkin etc) were Germans, Bela Kun was a Hungarian, and non-Christian Bolsheviks in Russia, who persecuted Christians, were not Jews. They were Russians.

For criminal ideology, called Marxism, is responsible the German state (speak Germans), for the crimes of Bolsheviks is responsible the Russian state (speak Russians) though the Russian Christians were the victims of non-Christian Bolsheviks.

You eat your cake and you claim to have it, too.



Well, Churchill had a better understanding of history, than today Zionist hypocrites:

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd), or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.

The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.

...

The fact that in many cases Jewish interests and Jewish places of worship are excepted by the Bolsheviks from their universal hostility has tended more and more to associate the Jewish race in Russia with the villainies which are now being perpetrated.

http://library.flawlesslogic.com/ish.htm

...their ideology was based in a great deal on German philosophy.

You failed to prove that Marxism has something to do with German philosophy.

[wat0n]

If Marx was a German, then there were no Jews who lived in Europe, they were Germans, Russians or Poles.

According to your logic Europeans just persecuted each other, no Jews were involved.

I don't see why he can't be considered a German Jew. One can perfectly have a mixed background. In fact, I myself have a mixed background, and consider me both Chilean and an ethnic Jew.

You bend the definition "Jews" like you want, in order do serve your agenda.

You're the one saying that being Jew is only about believing in a religion and not an ethnicity, following your logic I don't see why saying Marx was German is false. But it seems you don't consider Marx to have been German, why?

Well, Churchill had a better understanding of history, than today Zionist hypocrites:

I'm just following your logic, Marxism is German philosophy, hence Germans are to blame for whatever the followers of ideologies derived from it do. I know that your view is a-historical, but it's not my problem, it's yours.

You failed to prove that Marxism has something to do with German philosophy.

Marx was a German Jew, furthermore Marxism is based on a great deal on Hegel, also a German. Following your logic being a Jew is only about religion, hence for all purposes it is German philosophy.

[ArtAllm]

One can perfectly have a mixed background. In fact, I myself have a mixed background, and consider me both Chilean and an ethnic Jew.

People, like you, must be at war with yourselves.

You're the one saying that being Jew is only about believing in a religion and not an ethnicity...

Yes, that is my definition of Judaism, but some Jews (called Zionists) believe that they are a separate race.

...following your logic I don't see why saying Marx was German is false.

Yes, but in this case there was no persecution of Jew in Europe.

But it seems you don't consider Marx to have been German, why?

You have to make up your mind. You cannot have it both ways.

If you say that Marx was a German, then Einstein was also a German.
If there were no persecution of Russians and other Christians in Europe by non-Christians, then there were no persecution of European Jews in Europe by non-Jews.

And last but not least: what has Israel to do with people who were not Israeli citizens?

Why does Israel get money for the persecution of Germans, Poles, Russians or Hungarians?

.

[wat0n]

People, like you, must be at war with yourselves.

Sometimes it's hard to make sense of it all, but it also broadens your horizons and enables you to be a little bit more tolerant of other cultures.

Yes, that is my definition of Judaism, but some Jews (called Zionists) believe that they are a separate race.

Then let's apply your definition, tell me, was Marx a German yes or not?

Yes, but in this case there was no persecution of Jew in Europe.

Yes? So I can blame you Germans for whatever the Soviets did?

You have to make up your mind. You cannot have it both ways.

Why not? I just said that people can have mixed backgrounds. Yes, believe it or not people from different ethnicities can have sex with each other - and they can even have kids, and form a family

If you say that Marx was a German, then Einstein was also a German.

Indeed, he was. And both can be considered to be ethnic Jews - Einstein more so than Marx as he had a stronger Jewish identity.

If there were no persecution of Russians and other Christians in Europe by non-Christians,

When did I ever say so? In fact, I thought we were talking about Hebrews being guilty of Christian persecution of Pagans in Europe?

then there were no persecution of European Jews in Europe by non-Jews.

Of course there was. Even following your logic and saying that Jews are a religious group only, they could have been and were persecuted due to their beliefs, and there were attempts to forcibly convert them to other religions.

And last but not least: what has Israel to do with people who were not Israeli citizens?

Why does Israel get money for the persecution of Germans, Poles, Russians or Hungarians?

Because 1) Israel is a Jewish State (whatever that means) and more importantly, 2) Around 500,000 Holocaust survivors moved there, in most cases homeless. I doubt Israel would have even asked for reparations if it hadn't been overwhelmed with Jewish refugees from Europe and the Middle East:

Israel's dilemma

Following the Holocaust, Israel's relations with Germany were very tense. Israel was intent on taking in what remained of European Jewry. Israel was also recovering from the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, and was facing a deep economic crisis which led to a policy of austerity. Unemployment was very high (especially in the ma'abarot camps) and foreign currency reserves were scarce.[3] David Ben-Gurion and his Mapai party took a practical approach and argued that accepting the agreement was the only way to sustain the nation's economy.[3] "There are two approaches", he told the Mapai central committee. "One is the ghetto Jew's approach and the other is of an independent people. I don't want to run after a German and spit in his face. I don't want to run after anybody. I want to sit here and build here. I'm not going to go to America to take part in a vigil against Adenauer."[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparation ... 7s_dilemma

And there was opposition from within Israel as well:

Opposition

Public debate was among the fiercest in Israeli history. Opposition to the agreement came from both the right (Herut and the General Zionists) and the left (Mapam) of the political spectrum; both sides argued that accepting reparation payments was the equivalent of forgiving the Nazis for their crimes.

On 5 November 1951, Yaakov Hazan of Mapam said in the Knesset: "Nazism is rearing its ugly head again in Germany, and our so-called Western 'friends' are nurturing that Nazism; they are resurrecting Nazi Germany.... Our army, the Israel Defense Forces, will be in the same camp as the Nazi army, and the Nazis will begin infiltrating here not as our most terrible enemies, but rather as our allies..."[5]

At a session of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee in September 1952, Yitzhak Ben-Aharon, then a Mapam MK, stated, "I am not assuming that there are people who believe that Germany will pay a total of three billion marks, over a period of 12 years, and that this is no empty promise.... The Israeli government will obtain nothing but a piece of paper referring to three billion marks. And all this is only intended to mislead the public and claim the government has attained....".[5]

The rally

Anticipating the debate in the Knesset on 7 January 1952, all adjacent roads were blocked. Roadblocks and wire fences were set up around the building and the IDF was alert to suppress a mutiny. The rally, gathered by the agreement's opponents drew 15,000 people and the riots that ensued would be the most significant attempt in Israeli history to overturn a democratically-made Knesset decision. The decision was ultimately accepted by 61-50 margin, but not before the advancing riots interrupted the plenum debate for the first time in the Knesset history.[3]

Following a passionate and dramatic speech, Menachem Begin led the protesters towards the Knesset. The demonstration turned violent as protesters began throwing stones at the building's windows while the police used force to disperse them. After 5 hours of riots, the police took control of the situation using hoses and tear gas. Hundreds were arrested; about 200 protesters and 140 policemen were injured.[3]

Further protests

The decision did not end the protests. In October 1952 Dov Shilansky was arrested near the Minister of Foreign Affairs office, carrying a pack of dynamite. In his trial he was accused of being a member of an underground organization against the Reparations Agreement and was sentenced to 21 months in prison.[3] Several parcel bombs were sent to Adenauer and others targets, one of which killed a sapper who handled it.[6][7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparation ... Opposition

[Oxymoron]

Jews are an ethinic group, and a religion. Jews considered themselves German, but a discriminated against German. Marx was a German, Einstien was an American.

[ArtAllm]

Jews are an ethnic group, and a religion.

There are a lot of religious groups, who believe they are special, that they are a distinct, people, race, ethnic group (like Jehovah's Witnesses).

Who cares, as long as these religious nutters do not commit genocides and do not violate the international law!

Only one religious group is crazy enough to claim that their own God had promised them some territory and that because of this alleged "promise" they have the eternal and exclusive right on this territory, can expel the native population of the region and re-settle it with migrants of different races who speak different languages.

Are you and the Indian or Ethiopian Jews the same ethnic group?

Can you understand their language?

Would you agree to live with these people in one block?

If all Jews are the same ethnic group, why do white Jews from East Europe refuse to live in the same house with black Jews from Africa or India?

Marx was a German, Einstien was an American.

Wow!

If Einstein was an American, then Marx and his publisher Engels were English.

They lived in Britain and published their works there.

[ArtAllm]

...was Marx a German yes or not?

A "German" what?
The word "German" has many meanings.
He was a German citizen.
His native language was German, but what was his native culture and philosophy?

Was he German in the spiritual or cultural sense?

No, he was not.

I would call Marx a self-hating German Jew.

He could recognize the ugly morality of his Jewish ancestors, but he was unable to get rid of it.

He believed that the Christians societies had become "too Jewish", that Christians are re-developing into Jews.

Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist.

Money degrades all the gods of man - and turns them into commodities. ... Contempt for theory, art, history, and for man as an end in himself, which is contained in an abstract form in the Jewish religion, is the real, conscious standpoint, the virtue of the man of money.

The species-relation itself, the relation between man and woman, etc., becomes an object of trade! The woman is bought and sold.

...

The god of the Jews has become secularized and has become the god of the world. The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew.

...

Christianity sprang from Judaism. It has merged again in Judaism. From the outset, the Christian was the theorizing Jew, the Jew is, therefore, the practical Christian, and the practical Christian has become a Jew again.

...

Once society has succeeded in abolishing the empirical essence of Judaism - huckstering and its preconditions - the Jew will have become impossible, because his consciousness no longer has an object, because the subjective basis of Judaism, practical need, has been humanized, and because the conflict between man’s individual-sensuous existence and his species-existence has been abolished.

The social emancipation of the Jew is the emancipation of society from Judaism.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /index.htm

As we see, Marx wanted to destroy the pre-conditions of the corrupt Jewish moral, because he believed that this would be good for Jewish emancipation.

He cared more about Jews than about non-Jews, and that makes him Jewish.

I just said that people can have mixed backgrounds.

That is a strowman-argument.

Yes, most people have mixed backgrounds.

Some of them were even decorated by Hitler. Hitler was also of a mixed background.

His real name was Nepomuk, which is a Slavic name.

Contrary to conventional views, Rigg reveals that a startlingly large number of German military men were classified by the Nazis as Jews or "partial-Jews" (Mischlinge), in the wake of racial laws first enacted in the mid-1930s.

Rigg demonstrates that the actual number was much higher than previously thought--perhaps as many as 150,000 men, including decorated veterans and high-ranking officers, even generals and admirals.

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html

Johann Nepomuk Hiedler, also known as Johann Nepomuk Hüttler (March 19, 1807 - September 17, 1888), was a maternal great-grandfather[1] and possibly also the paternal grandfather of Adolf Hitler.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Nepomuk_Hiedler

So how can this strawman-argument support your claim that today German taxpayers, born after WWII, still have to pay money to Israel?

Yes, believe it or not people from different ethnicities can have sex with each other - and they can even have kids, and form a family

Zionists are very afraid of that fact, and that is the reason why they are against "race mixing".

Foreign workers have to sign a paper, promising that they will not have sex with Jewish women, if they want to get a job in Israel.

Zionists accepted the "Nuremberg laws", because they served their own aspirations and agenda.

Solution of the Jewish question? It was our Zionist dream! We never denied the existence of the Jewish question! Dissimilation? It was our own appeal!

...

In a statement notable for its pride and dignity, we called for a conference. [8]

...

On the foundation of the new state, which has established the principle of race, we wish so to fit our community into the total structure so that for us too, in the sphere assigned to us, fruitful activity for the Fatherland is possible

...

Our acknowledgement of Jewish nationality provides for a clear and sincere relationship to the German people and its national and racial realities.

Precisely because we do not wish to falsify these fundamentals, because we, too, are against mixed marriage and are for maintaining the purity of the Jewish group

...

We who live here as a “foreign race” have to respect racial consciousness and the racial interest of the German people absolutely.

This however does not preclude a peaceful living together of people of different racial membership. The smaller the possibility of an undesirable mixture, so much less is there need for “racial protection”

...

Prior to the Nazis, German Zionism was no more than an isolated bourgeois political cult. While the leftists were trying to fight the brownshirts in the streets, the Zionists were busy collecting money for trees in Palestine.


Suddenly in 1933 this small group conceived of itself as properly anointed by history to negotiate secretly with the Nazis, to oppose the vast mass of world Jewry who wanted to resist Hitler, all in the hope of obtaining the support of the enemy of their people for the building of their state in Palestine.


Smolar and their other Zionist critics saw the ZVfD as merely cowardly, but they were quite wrong.

Any surrender theory explains nothing of the pre-Hitler evolution of Zionist racism, nor does it go far in explaining the WZO’s endorsement of their stance. The truth is sadder than cowardice.

The plain fact is that Germany’s Zionists did not see themselves as surrendering but, rather, as would-be partners in a most statesmanlike pact.

http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/ch05.htm

You were still unable to answer the simple question, why have today German taxpayers, born after WWII, still pay money to Israel?

[ArtAllm]

Quote:
'And last but not least: what has Israel to do with people who were not Israeli citizens? Why does Israel get money for the persecution of Germans, Poles, Russians or Hungarians? '

-------

Because 1) Israel is a Jewish State (whatever that means) and more importantly, 2) Around 500,000 Holocaust survivors moved there, in most cases homeless. I doubt Israel would have even asked for reparations if it hadn't been overwhelmed with Jewish refugees from Europe and the Middle East:

What have these refugees from the Middle East to do with "German guilt"?

All Jews that lost their property during WWII under German occupation could get it back after WWII, settle in any country, and they received personal compensations.


I am not talking about this money.

I am talking about huge amounts of money that were paid to the so called "Jewish state", which violates the international law.

A state that made homeless many native Semites that were expelled from their native Palestine.

Why has the German taxpayer, who was born after WWII, to pay for some Russian or Maghreb Jews, who never lived under German occupation, and help them to settle in Israel in town that are illegally built on the ruins of expelled Palestinian villages?

Why do Israelis not pay for the Nakba and the expelled Palestinians?

Why do they not stick to the international law and do not permit these people return to their homeland, and do not give them equal rights?

Why do German taxpayers have to support an apartheid state?

Why do they have to support Zionism, despite the fact that most prominent Zionists collaborated with the NS-Regime.

On the one hand Germans are told that they must be ashamed of National-Socialism, on the other hand they have to support Zionism, an ideology that was very friendly to National-Socialism.

And there was opposition from within Israel as well

I hope that this opposition is not phony, that Israel will pay back the money it received from German taxpayers that have nothing to do with the crimes of National-Socialism.

And I also hope that Israel stops violating international law, admits all expelled native Semites to return to their homes and grants alls Israelis equal rights.

After that I hope that the Israeli (not Jewish!) parliament will vote and decide about the compensations that Israel must pay to the victims of Nakba.

Today Israelis are guilty of Nakba, they voted for it, and they have to pay for this crime with their own money, not with the money of today German taxpayers, who were born after WWII and have nothing to do with National Socialism.

[Oxymoron]

Are you and the Indian or Ethiopian Jews the same ethnic group?

There is probably some genetic similarities because of mixing with the Ethiopian, but I believe they are Converted Jews rather then Ethinic Semites. They think of themselves as Jews whether religious or not, and most ethinic groups are made up in some part by those who join them from outside.

Can you understand their language?

Can Serbs understand Russian?

Would you agree to live with these people in one block?

Only if they are hot

[wat0n]

A "German" what?
The word "German" has many meanings.
He was a German citizen.
His native language was German, but what was his native culture and philosophy?

Was he German in the spiritual or cultural sense?

No, he was not.

I would call Marx a self-hating German Jew.

He could recognize the ugly morality of his Jewish ancestors, but he was unable to get rid of it.

He believed that the Christians societies had become "too Jewish", that Christians are re-developing into Jews.

What? So Marx was a German Jew but not a German? But you just said that Jews are just a religious group, and thus he should be considered a German.

As we see, Marx wanted to destroy the pre-conditions of the corrupt Jewish moral, because he believed that this would be good for Jewish emancipation.

He cared more about Jews than about non-Jews, and that makes him Jewish.

In what sense does that make him Jewish? Once again, you said that Jews are only a religious group, didn't you? Are you saying Marx was a believer in Judaism?

Or now you're considering Jews to be an ethnic group because it suits you?

That is a strowman-argument.

Yes, most people have mixed backgrounds.

Some of them were even decorated by Hitler. Hitler was also of a mixed background.

His real name was Nepomuk, which is a Slavic name.

So? In which way does it invalidate that people can identify with more than one ethnicity? In which way, exactly, is it a strawman?

Zionists are very afraid of that fact, and that is the reason why they are against "race mixing".

Nice strawman as well. 1) It has nothing to do with the topic at hand and 2) Only the nuts, the ones who are as racist as you are, believe so.

Foreign workers have to sign a paper, promising that they will not have sex with Jewish women, if they want to get a job in Israel.

Do you have any source for this? From official Israeli government sources or a scanning of the said paper so the Israeli posters in this forum can comment on them.

What have these refugees from the Middle East to do with "German guilt"?

All Jews that lost their property during WWII under German occupation could get it back after WWII, settle in any country, and they received personal compensations.


I am not talking about this money.

I am talking about huge amounts of money that were paid to the so called "Jewish state", which violates the international law.

Germany payed reparations to other States after WWII, what's your point?

Why do Israelis not pay for the Nakba and the expelled Palestinians?

They have been offered compensation, but they have rejected it in the past because of disagreements over the right of return.

So how can this strawman-argument support your claim that today German taxpayers, born after WWII, still have to pay money to Israel?

You were still unable to answer the simple question, why have today German taxpayers, born after WWII, still pay money to Israel?

Why has the German taxpayer, who was born after WWII, to pay for some Russian or Maghreb Jews, who never lived under German occupation, and help them to settle in Israel in town that are illegally built on the ruins of expelled Palestinian villages?

The only person complaining about Germany paying reparations to Israel in the 1950s, was you:

Israeli infrastructure was created thanks to Germany and to the German and American know-how and taxpayers' money.

Without this support Israel's economy would collapse.

If the neighbouring countries received the same amount of money and attention, they would be as developed, as Israel.

I hope that this opposition is not phony, that Israel will pay back the money it received from German taxpayers that have nothing to do with the crimes of National-Socialism.

The opposition in the 1950s was certainly not phony.

[ArtAllm]

I believe they are Converted Jews rather then Ethinic Semites.

No, they are the real Hebrews of Semitic origin, and white Ashkenazis are Slavs and Khazars that converted to Judaism.

Can Serbs understand Russian?

Why should they? Do they claim that they belong to the same ethnic group?

.

[Oxymoron]

Me says
Can Serbs understand Russian?

You says

No, they are the real Jews of Semitic origin, and white Ashkenazis are Slavs and Khazars that converted to Judaism.

me says
Ah your one of those......

Why should they? Do they claim that they belong to the same ethnic group?

Case closed

[ArtAllm]

In what sense does that make him Jewish?

Marx (like Einstein) believed in the existence of a "Jewish race", and he was loyal to the interests of this group of people.

Once again, you said that Jews are only a religious group, didn't you?

Yes, of course, I do not believe in this crazy stuff about the "Jewish race".

Are you saying Marx was a believer in Judaism?

No, he was not. But he believed in the existence of a "Jewish race". He believed that he himself was a "biological Jew".

Or now you're considering Jews to be an ethnic group because it suits you?

It does not matter what I consider. There are crazy people who believe in many crazy things. How can I prevent that?

So? In which way does it invalidate that people can identify with more than one ethnicity?
In which way, exactly, is it a strawman?

It does not matter how people identify themselves.
What really matters is the loyalty of these people.
Was Marx a German patriot?

No, he was not.

Do you have any source for this?

Yes, of course:

Chinese workers at a company in Israel have been forced to agree not to have sex with or marry Israelis as a condition of getting a job.

According to a contact they are required to sign, male workers may not have any contact with Israeli women - including prostitutes, a police spokesman, Rafi Yaffe, said.

He said there was nothing illegal about the requirement and that no investigation had been opened.

An Israeli lawyer who did not want to be named said while the contract might appear legal, it would be rejected if challenged in court.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/dec/24/israel1

This company was not sued, and that means that these employment contracts are nothing unusual in Israel.

BTW, why was this "Israeli lawyer", who believed that the contract was illegal, so afraid to tell his name?

Who cares about the opinion of an anonymous lawyer?

Only the nuts, the ones who are as racist as you are, believe so.

You call me a "racist" because I expose the racism of Zionists.
You support this racist Jewish ideology, but you have the cheek to call me a racist.

How nice of you!



.

[ArtAllm]

Germany payed reparations to other States after WWII, what's your point?

Germany didn't pay reparations to any non-existing states. There was no state, called Israel, that was attacked by Germany.

What is your point?

[ArtAllm]

Quote:
Why do Israelis not pay for the Nakba and the expelled Palestinians?
-------
They have been offered compensation, but they have rejected it in the past because of disagreements over the right of return.

What a hypocrisy!

Zionists continue the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, they continue the destruction of ancient Palestinian villages and ancient olive gardens.

They refuse to stick to the international law and refuse to let the refugees to return to their homes.... but they offered some "food stamps" to expelled Palestinians, and these "food stamps" are paid with the money of German and American taxpayers.

And you call other people racists?

Shame on you!

The only person complaining about Germany paying reparations to Israel in the 1950s, was you:

Do you really believe that German taxpayers are happy about the support of the Zionist regime?

How can any German taxpayer prevent this?

Germany, which believes it has a historic responsibility to help Israel because of the mass murder of Jews in World War II, donated the first two submarines after the 1991 Gulf War.

It split the cost of the third with the Jewish state.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... VylnRAoUyg

This fool writes that "Germany believes". Who is that "Germany" that "believes"?
Was there a referendum about this?
No!
Could the German parliament prevent this squandering of German taxpayer's money!
No!

The opposition in the 1950s was certainly not phony.

If it was not phony, Germany would not have to "donate" submarines to Israel, which may be used against Germany:

In a September 2003 interview in Elsevier, a Dutch weekly, on Israel and the dangers it faces from Iran, the Palestinians and world opinion van Creveld stated:

We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force…. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_van_Creveld