[The Clockwork Rat]

what exactly would we do with the millions of cows and chickens still alive?

Eat them.

Next?

[Godstud]

Most would DIE if they were released. Most domestic breeds rely on man for survival now.

[SpecialOlympian]

Most would DIE if they were released. Most domestic breeds rely on man for survival now.

Exactly. It is a symbiotic relationship, not unlike the relationship between algae and fungi when they form a lichen.

The treatment of animals may be perceived as cruel, but their status as livestock ensures their continued survival. And even if mankind were to annihilate itself, the growth of their population in both numbers and area ensures their continued survival in a post-human world.

If anything, I'd say cows and chickens are taking advantage of us.

[Jeremy]

For a start, there's no food chain that we are at the top of, I believe you learn that it is a cycle in GCSEs or the international's equivalent.

We don't get eaten much apparently because we taste crap.

At any rate, we have canine teeth, which are there for a purpose. We are omnivorous and probably always have been. We have meat-tearing teeth because we can derive so much nutrition from flesh. It is true that you can get plenty of protein from nuts, split beans and lentils etc... but nuts are very oily, a lean steak would probably be better for you (after all, you can buy bottles of nut oil... you don't get bottles of Extra Virgin Cow Oil, from what I've noticed).

I don't believe absolute vegetarianism is viable for the whole of humanity. For example, in places like much of Scotland and pretty much all of Mongolia, the soil is too shallow to grow any real crops, so tough patchy grass is all that grows. Conveniently, sheep and goats actually graze better on low quality grass than masses of lush green grass, which gives them the squits. To make the most of the land, a section of animal meat worldwide is actually much more efficient. Not only does stopping people using animal husbandry to help supplement their diet deprive them of what little food they have, it also means large amounts of land that can be used will no longer be used at all, which isn't really helping food stocks around the world. I'm not suggesting we have a food shortage, that's not true. We'd just make the lack of balance worse.

Also, vegetarians who drink milk bought from a shop are bigger bastards that enjoy a steak once a month. Not only are they hypocritical, but the dairy system is about as humane as kicking a cat in the face because it's hungry. Generally, in my case, meat never takes up more than 1/3 of my meal, it doesn't need a main role and it shouldn't. Vegetables are underrated, frankly, but I wouldn't condone absolute vegetarianism internationally. It is neither sustainable nor fair.

I make sure I buy meat from butchers, never supermarkets, because I trust those at the markets and in an independent store as they know where the meat comes from. I think it is much more humane to kill an animal and make sure not a single part goes to waste than force it to give me milk so I can have cheese under the pretense of being 'vegetarian, avoiding meat protein'. In fact, I am sure it is more humane.

[Goldberk]

I echo and support most of the above post, however I would add that the key debate should not be vegetarianism versus eating meat but rather one around the use of industrial farming.

[Pants-of-dog]

Yeah! Those breastfeeding babies are disgusting!!!

Then again, most dairy products are good for your health, so it can't be a bad thing.

Adults who consume the breast milk of another species of animal are engaging in an odd behaviour.

Most dairy products have high amounts of hormones and antibiotics in them, and the health benefits generally associated with milk are scientifically uncertain.

[Godstud]

The health benefits of yogurt are not uncertain. We're talking milk products, like yogurt, as well.

The Benefits of Yogurt
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/ ... ekey=79753

[Pants-of-dog]

The health benefits of yogurt are not uncertain. We're talking milk products, like yogurt, as well.

The Benefits of Yogurt
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/ ... ekey=79753

They should call that article "The Benefits of Probiotics".

You do realise that it is possible to get probiotics without an accompanying dairy product?

I like how they mention that probiotics can help with lactose intolerance. You know what also helps? Not eating dairy products.

[Godstud]

It's not all about "Probiotics". You can argue almost any diet as nutritional, because we gain nutrition from almost anything(omnivore!!!).

Still, you(a general you) can't talk about not wasting any of animal when butchering it, and discard milk products in the next breath.

[Pants-of-dog]

It's not all about "Probiotics". You can argue almost any diet as nutritional, because we gain nutrition from almost anything(omnivore!!!).

Still, you(a general you) can't talk about not wasting any of animal when butchering it, and discard milk products in the next breath.

If we had no dairy farms, all the milk produced in cow udders would go to feed the calves that we would then slaughter for our luscious veal. No milk would be wasted.

[Godstud]

No cheese!!!? Bite your tongue!!!

Anyways, it's about providing people with variety. Variety being the spice of life.

[The Clockwork Rat]

Anyways, it's about providing people with variety. Variety being the spice of life.

...and yet again we come to the issue of consumption now vs future sustainability.

[Godstud]

We can do BOTH.

[The Clockwork Rat]

Vegan cheese is odd. It's like cheese, but not quite; there's a sort of floury texture, though it tastes quite good, especially when "melted." I put that in quotes because when I put it under the grill, it didn't melt like normal cheese, instead it seems more like the fats inside it cooked the proteins and carbs, so the texture pulled together a bit.

[LehmanB]

people should stop telling others what to eat. Even if its not inviornmental, most people should eat meat, and next time bring less children if you care for co2.

Oh- and I don't eat meat.

[The Clockwork Rat]

Only a libertarian could say that. "You can destroy the future, so long as you're not coercing people at the moment."

[Godstud]

Eating meat is not "destroying the future". The future's going to be there whether we're in it, or not.

If anything, people need to start looking at alternate meat sources(like insects which are easy to raise, and far more efficient at converting grains, etc. into protein.

[The Clockwork Rat]

I can agree with that.

[QatzelOk]

Eating meat is not "destroying the future". The future's going to be there whether we're in it, or not.

It takes 78 calories of fossil fuel to produce 1 calorie of beef protein; 35 calories for 1 calorie of pork; 22 calories for 1 of poultry; but just 1 calorie of fossil fuel for 1 calorie of soybeans.

It takes 3 to 15 times as much water to produce animal protein as it does plant protein.

It takes up to 16 pounds of soybeans and grains to produce 1 lb. of beef and 3 to 6 lbs. to produce 1 lb of turkey & egg.

Click on the link to see what meat consumption means to the future of the planet's ability to maintain life after we're gone.

[Godstud]

As I said, we need to find more efficient means to provide protein, and you ranting about carbon footprints and fossil fuels, is not even slightly productive, Quatz. We know what the problems are but unless you have solutions, then you're just preaching to the converted.