[HoniSoit]

Just some ideas about how we could proceed the simulation game:

- Each week, the Government will invite MPs to submit a limited number of bills, including new bills, amendments to exisiting bills and consitituional amendments. Since the fundamental unit of the simulation game is still the political party, MPs essentially introduce bills on behalf of their parties. The largest four parties each with at least four MPs- the SN-RF, the PNL, THP and the SLD - can each introduce up to two bills each week; the rest of the parties each can introduce up to one bill per week. Of course, MPs/parties could choose not to submit any bill.

- Once all bills are submitted, there will be two to three days' time for deliberation, negotiation and bargaining after which all the bills will be voted on individually at the same time for another three days / 72 hours. So basically, there will be a seven day / weekly cycle.

I hope this would seem fair to everyone, and if so, we can get the parliamentary game running straightaway. However, it is open to suggestion.

[Zyx]

What do ministers do?

I mostly understand the American system, but here, there are 'ministries' which craft legislation and send it to the Prime Minister for whether the bill ought to be debated or not.

This doesn't seem favorable in this setting, but at least it empowers ministers. Otherwise, what do the ministries do?

This is a free discussion, although I appear to be asking HoniSoit.

[HoniSoit]

Otherwise, what do the ministries do?

It's a problem I have been struggling with as well. I think there needs to be a balance between giving ministers some extra power - otherwise there is no point being a minister or elected to government, and not alienating the rest of parties/MPs/players.

Perhaps bills should only be permited to be introduced to the parliament after whoever submitting the bills consult with and have support (but it doesn't need to be total agreement with the bill) of the relevant ministers - as to basically indicates there is ground for negotiation and possibility of the support from the government - since for any bill to pass, it's unlikely you can ignore the support of all the government MPs.

[Zyx]

We should have minister offices.

I'm thinking that any bills passed under a ministers heading should be, at least, posted in that minister's thread. How's that sound?

That person will then talk about some amendments that its party at whole would like to see. This seems reasonable.

I hope Demosthenes can make some ministries, as well as a Lobby thread. I'd make them, but it doesn't seem as official lest he does.

[HoniSoit]

We should have minister offices.

I'm thinking that any bills passed under a ministers heading should be, at least, posted in that minister's thread. How's that sound?

That person will then talk about some amendments that its party at whole would like to see. This seems reasonable.

Sounds good. What about this: 1) all bills should initially be submitted to relevant ministries i.e. posted in relevant ministry threads. 2) the relevant ministers could (but don't have to) make some comment / suggestion of change for the bill 3) if the changes are accepted, it would signal the broad support of government MPs i.e. increase the bills' chance to be passed. 3) however, if the changes are not accepted, the bills could still be introduced to the Parliament - but this is likely to mean that it may not receive governmen's support.

I hope Demosthenes can make some ministries, as well as a Lobby thread. I'd make them, but it doesn't seem as official lest he does.

Sounds like a good idea. They don't need to be sticked though since it would be too much trouble to ask Fox.

[Demosthenes]

Sounds like a good idea. They don't need to be sticked though since it would be too much trouble to ask Fox.

We've got two blanks right now, though this would limit future party expansion.

As to ministers, my feeling is to leave all that up to the new government, unless I really need to step in.

But yes, ministers need some special role or it's just a plaque.

Initially I had thought they would be able to propose legislation in their given field. But then the thing about MPs who are not in government came up and it appeared that they should be able to propose legislation. I thought they shouldn't be able to without the cooperation of at least one ruling minister, or maybe two. But again, this is discussion as a player. I don't care.

[Zyx]

Yeah, ministry offices sound fine. They don't need to be sticky.

How about a bill needs to sit in a ministers office for at least two days before being proposed to the congress floor?

[HoniSoit]

How about a bill needs to sit in a ministers office for at least two days before being proposed to the congress floor?

What's the point of that?

[Zyx]

You said that the bill has to be posted into the ministry. But what's to stop someone from posting it superficially in the ministry and then posting it in the Parliament (or to the PM?) I think that the minister should have the opportunity to at least see the bill. Still, if the minister happens to be away, it shouldn't cease the field or something.

[HoniSoit]

Still, if the minister happens to be away, it shouldn't cease the field or something.

But it would delay the bill for a maximum two days.

At least we have established the general principles:

- every MP / party can propose bills

- but the bills have to get the broad support of the relevant ministers i.e. whoever submitting the bill should consult with the ministers and the ministers in turn could suggest some changes in exchange for the support of the government

- therefore, the ministers basically deal with the substantive issues and speak on behalf of the party. However, it's always good that the ministers consult with other ministers and members of the ruling party - but that's not essential.

[Zyx]

Alright, that's cool.

Should Demosthenes make some non-stickied threads devoted to Ministers?

I feel that if I make my ministry, should I ever lose the space, it'd be inappropriate. Maybe discussion in the thread would just stop? Dunno.

[Dr House]

So, what would the role of shadow ministry cabinets be?

[ingliz]

We lack parliamentary time and an active membership, a 1/4 of MP's couldn't be bothered to turn up to vote even in our reduced parliament. Having so much potential legislation, in these circumstances, seems a bit silly. Why not allow allow opposition parties a maximum of 1 bill each per session and the government a minimum of 6 and put it on a fortnightly cycle? MP's can introduce as many bills as they please but they must be sponsored by the relevant government minister.

[Dr House]

I think that'd overly restrict the opposition.

And what the fuck is a fortnight? I was never clear on that.

[ingliz]

In most Parliaments the opposition has very little say in introducing legislation as the government controls the timetable. I thought I was being generous in guaranteeing opposition bills reach the floor of the House.

ps. A fortnight is 2 weeks.

[Dr House]

Alright I can agree to that then.

I guess I'm just too used to the American system (which is also used in Puerto Rico) where all congressmen can introduce bills into the floor at any time.

[ingliz]

http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws ... embers.cfm

The Mother of Parliaments

[HoniSoit]

I think the Opposition should be allowed more chances to introduce bills. Perhaps the government up to 4 per week and the opposition up to 2 per week?

Also, only the Ministers and Shadow Ministers can introduce bills.

How does this sound, House?

[ingliz]

Why? The opposition's job is to oppose, the government's job is to govern. I would favour "committee"; there shadow ministers can amend initial legislation without the government giving up control of its legislative programme.

Of course, we should have private members' ballot bills but they should be severely limited unless they have government support.

[Dr House]

I think either of the above options sound good. I especially like Ingliz's idea about having the shadow government amend bills as it gives them (and the government) a more central role in the sim.

I'd like to wait for input from my party leader though.