wat0n wrote:Tailz wrote:
Your skeptical of what? The unequal application of law and order? Especially in relation to punishments?
No, that the attacks will stop if the Abu Khdeir murderers get an appropriate punishment.
Maybe I over stated myself too strongly with my initial post, if you think I was hinting that equality of law and order would "end" the violence. Oh no no no... the attacks by both sides are going to keep going on in some form or another. Their both so invested in attacking in other now. But the equal application of law will cause some to rethink attacking. The hand liners will attack regardless of the consequences.
Plus with the current political atmosphere these days, any kind of crime that even looks like it involves a brown person is labeled as terrorism these days... and everyone's a copy-cat.
Brown man gets angry at Coffee barista who messed up his order, CNN claims terrorism, ISIS claims responsibility... Brown man just wanted a Coffee with no milk?!
wat0n wrote:Tailz wrote:
Other issues? So your saying the application of law should bend to the will of... other issues? Sounds a bit wishy-washy to me.
No, that attackers have other motives for acting that have nothing to do with an application of the law.
Indeed. Each side has so many 'reasons' stored up to justify attacking each other. The Israeli's bulldozed my house! The Palestinians launched rockets at us! The Israeli's did this! The Palestinians did that!
The soft glove approach the Israeli's use to their own criminals, is just another one of those many excuses.
For example:
Israeli Military Moves to Raze Terrorists’ Homes as Soon as Possible After Attacks
Army says demolitions are most effective when close to actual attacks; demolishes Nablus home of leader of Hamas terror cell that killed Eitam and Na’ama Henkin in October.
The Israel Defense Forces has started mapping the houses of Palestinian terrorists within 24 hours of an attack, in a bid to speed up its controversial home-demolition policy. A senior defense official says that quickly implemented demolitions are the most effective, although he admits the process is “draconian.”
The IDF’s latest home demolition took place in the early hours of Thursday morning, when it razed the Nablus home of Ragheb Ahmad Muhammad Aliwi, the Hamas cell commander behind the October 1 murder of Israelis Eitam and Na’ama Henkin.
Aliwi recruited the four terrorists who carried out the murders and supplied them with their weapons. He had previously been imprisoned for terror activity. All five members of the cell have been arrested. The Henkins, both in their 30s, were driving with their four children when their car came under fire in the West Bank. The children, all boys, survived the attack.
The High Court of Justice approved the demolition of Aliwi’s home on Tuesday. The houses of three other cell members were razed last month. Also Tuesday, the High Court vetoed the demolition of the home of Nur al-Din Abu Hashaya, who stabbed a soldier to death at a Tel Aviv train station in November 2014. The High Court ruled that the state had waited too long to carry out the demolition, saying the army couldn’t “turn the clock back” and that the delay caused unnecessary hardship to the family.
The IDF began implementing its new policy on the demolition of terrorists’ homes last week: It is sending troops to terrorists’ homes within 24 hours of the attack and conducting a survey – the first step in preparations for demolition. The new policy places those who have murdered Israelis at the top of the list of priorities.
A senior IDF officer told Haaretz that the razing of terrorists’ homes is an effective tool. “If on the same night that someone stabbed to death [someone and we could demolish his home], then we would do so,” he said.
The senior defense official agreed that quick demolitions were most effective, adding that he would like to see a shortening of the process for securing the approval of demolitions.
The demolition of terrorists’ homes is a controversial policy whose effectiveness was previously questioned by the IDF. However, in light of the recent spate of terror attacks, the government has reintroduced the policy. On Wednesday morning, for example, the IDF demolished the Shoafat home of Ibrahim al-Akri, who rammed his car into a crowd at the Shimon Hatzadik light rail station in Jerusalem in November 2014, killing two Israelis.
However, the IDF has yet to demolish the homes of all terrorists who carried out deadly attacks. The IDF can only carry out the demolitions after receiving instructions from the government and gaining approval from the High Court, which can be petitioned by the families of the terrorists.
The IDF has also been surveying the homes of some Palestinians who launched terror attacks that did not prove fatal, including Mamoon Raed Muhammed al-Khateeb, 16, who attempted to stab a pedestrian at the Gush Etzion junction in the West Bank last Tuesday but was shot dead by a soldier.What do you think Palestinians think when they see this, meanwhile the Israeli's who burned the Palestinian kid alive look to get off on legal technicalities (the adult is filing for insanity, while the other two are juveniles), let alone had their family homes demolished with such speed.
wat0n wrote:Tailz wrote:
The collective punishments have been shown by IDF research and common sense to be no deterrence at all. If anything it helps to create more revenge attacks and to act as an excuse by the Iraeali political right for more settler homes as punishment. Plays into all sides hands when you think about it.
Indeed, home demolition is pretty useless as a deterrent, immoral and should of course be stopped for good. But what does that have to do with what you quoted?
I was giving an example of how such incidents are exploited to fulfill the goals of interested parties. The Israeli's use the attacks to justify "punishments" such as more settler housing, which in turn generates friction with the Palestinians who then use it as an excuse to attack Israelis.
wat0n wrote:Are you trying to claim I support an unequal application of Israeli law? That is essentially how your post reads.
Oh come now Wat0n, you know me. If I am going to accuse you of something, I will not beat around the bush.
So you think the Israeli authorities should be demolishing the homes of Israeli criminals who engage in politically motivated attacks?
wat0n wrote:In that case you are wrong, but I'd not be surprised since this isn't the first time you try to set this straw man up.
A straw man that you just built.
But you did write that the law should bend to the will of outside forces...
I just think that the law should be blind, in both investigation and conviction. If home demolition is the punishment (which I do not condone since it punishes people for a crime they didn't commit) then it is to be applied when anyone commits that crime for which it is the punishment.
wat0n wrote:Tailz wrote:
I have been lurking in the background. Got tired of village idiots who are far more comfortable with lies than the uncomfortable reality.
Indeed. For instance, those very village idiots may fail to realize people have different motivations to act and that there is no simple solution for ending uncoordinated, lone-wolf attackers. So they may believe that if Israel did "x", attacks would magically stop when it is far from clear this would be the case by judging from what the attackers themselves have said upon capture and which include stuff that has nothing to do with politics (e.g. the woman involved in the Afula bus station attack wanted to be killed by the Israeli police because she was depressed, given that suicide is strongly condemned in Islam if it is not a form of martyrdom). Hopefully they'd decrease in their intensity but this is far from guaranteed due to the uncoordinated nature of the attacks.
Equal law and order, would certainly remove one of the many excuses.
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