[Atlantis]

In short: the French mobile operator Orange intends to pull out off operations in Israel because of international law prohibiting operations in occupied territory and because of an Arab market (Egypt, etc.) which appears more promising. The Israeli government, which fears an international boycott, has worked itself into a frenzy and demanded that the French government sacks the CEO of Orange.

A boycott may prove more effective than any peace talk.

Orange says it plans to terminate contract with brand partner in Israel

The French telecoms giant Orange has indicated that it intends to terminate its relationship with the Israeli company that licenses its brand in the country – and would end the relationship “tomorrow” if it could.

The comments – made by the company’s CEO, Stephane Richard – have emerged amid a sharp push back by the Israeli government against growing calls for an international boycott of Israel over its continuing occupation of Palestinian territories.

They were angrily condemned by the Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, who called on the French government to “distance itself publicly from the miserable statement and the miserable action of a company that is partially owned by the government of France.”

Although Orange only licenses its name to the Israeli company Partner, the threat – if carried through – will be seen as a major success for the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement which has been campaigning on the issue in both France and Egypt.

Orange, in which the French government has a quarter stake, has been under pressure in France as well as in Egypt to terminate its relationship with Partner over its supply of services to Israeli settlements regarded as illegal under international law.

Last month Orange was accused of flouting the French foreign ministry’s own guidelines on investing in Israel by the Catholic Committee against Hunger and for Development.

In a report published in May the group claimed that Partner had built more than 100 telecommunication antennas on confiscated Palestinian land, as well as operating four shops in Israeli settlements.

Speaking at a news conference in Cairo to lay out plans for the years ahead in Egypt, Richard said that his company intended to withdraw the Orange brand from Israel as soon as possible, but that the move would take time.

“I am ready to abandon this tomorrow morning but the point is that I want to secure the legal risk for the company. I want to terminate this, once again, but I don’t want to expose Orange to a level of risk and of penalties that could be really sizeable for the company,” he said.

Richard said his company’s stance on the matter was the result of its sensitivity to Arab countries.

“I know that it is a sensitive issue here in Egypt, but not only in Egypt ... We want to be one of the trustful partners of all Arab countries.”

He added that the brand fees from the contract with Partner were low compared to the size of Orange, saying that “the interest for us is certainly not a financial interest”.

“If you take those amounts on one side and on the other side the time that we spend to explain this, to try to find a solution and the consequences that we have to manage here but also in France, believe me it’s a very bad deal,” he added.

At the news conference, Richard explained that the use of the Orange brand name in Israel dated back to the 1990s, under a contract inherited by the group when France Telecom acquired Orange.

Recent negotiations have put Orange in a position where it can terminate the contract in the future, but at the moment the legal framework was not favourable, he said. Partner is Israel’s second biggest mobile company.

Partner said in response that it regrets Richard’s comments.

“We wish to highlight that Partner Communications is an Israeli company owned by Saban Capital Group, which is owned by Haim Saban, and not by France Telecom (Orange). The company is holding the Orange brand name since 1998, and the only connection between us and France Telecom is the brand name.”

Israel’s deputy foreign minister, Tzipi Hotovely, wrote to Richard asking for clarification.

“I must admit to have been taken aback by these reports which do not become a responsible global company such as Orange,” she wrote. “I am confident that these reports do not reflect the intent of your company. I therefore urge you to clarify the matter as soon as possible.”

Yair Lapid, head of the opposition Yesh Atid party, also attacked Richard for the comments, and called on state-run France Telecom, which owns a majority stake in Orange, to distance itself from the comments.

“This is hypocrisy of the highest order,” he said in a statement. “I don’t remember him having a problem making money here and profiting from Israeli citizens. The state of Israel is an island of sanity in this difficult neighbourhood and we certainly won’t accept lessons in morality from someone so self-righteous and detached.”

The row over Richard’s comments came as the US ambassador to Israel, Dan Shapiro, pointedly remarked that the threats to boycott Israel were being driven, in part, by a lack of peace negotiations.

“The problem is that now there are no negotiations,” Shapiro told Israel Radio. “In the past when there were negotiations, that was the most effective tool to tell other countries, perhaps private companies as well, not to impose sanctions because that would upset efforts to reach a solution.”

The Guardian

[LehmanB]

He don't boycott Israel and apologised for that.
Orange has a bad agreement with a local company and now is the most expenssive communication company and is basicaly going to bankrupt. He closed his company in an ugly way though- to attract our peaceful neighbours. This very person say to each audience what it wants to hear.

The trade with Europe and with the UK has rised by several percent, especialy the export. So is the cultural communication and trade.

The boycott movement is heard among small layer of academists. Its insugnificat in practice, except for inciting and drag hatred amids students. ( BTW, in the USA Saudia Arabia finance many for BDS groups. ). So where the BDS is having a success? - again- in cultural interruptions- shouting and exploding Israeli's lectures etc. - again, a bad enviornment in the academy.

In the west There is strong and full conncetion with Israel and Jews in almost all aspects. Because it benefits both sides.

Don't you worry though- Boycotting Israel is very real and having a success in other part of the world though: the Islamic world.
The Islamic and Arab world is where boycotting Israel actualy exists, and highly effective, and exists for 70 years. You can hence study it, learn how they have done it. And learn how it promoted peace. How it succeeded to push Israel to be more peaceful and create better relations in he region. And most of all- see how boycotting Israel turned the Arabs into tolerance for Jews.

The conflict between Israel and the Arab world has several reasons: conflict between Russia and the USA. 2- boycotting Israel. 3. A tradition of war between anybody here. These three factors are responssible for conflicts.

[Atlantis]

In the west There is strong and full conncetion with Israel and Jews in almost all aspects. Because it benefits both sides.

How do close relations with Israel benefit the West?

Would it not be even more beneficial to have close relations with Arab and other Muslim nations which have trillions of oil revenue to spend on infrastructure projects?

And most of all- see how boycotting Israel turned the Arabs into tolerance for Jews.

It is my understanding that the boycott is designed to support Palestinians not Israelis. Is that wrong?

2- boycotting Israel.

You confuse cause and effect. The boycott is because of the conflict, not the other way around.

[wat0n]

How do close relations with Israel benefit the West?

Would it not be even more beneficial to have close relations with Arab and other Muslim nations which have trillions of oil revenue to spend on infrastructure projects?

The West already has close relations with those Arab and Muslim countries.

[skinster]

^ the people of Egypt support Palestinians (despite their prostitute-government). They are the customers of the phone company. The phone company is aware of this, hence the boycott.

BDS

Nothing else will work with regards to the brutal occupation of the Palestinian people because Israeli politicians have said as much (and worse) and the mask is finally off, something I commend Nethanyahu for.

BDS is the only solution and it has the support of many, but best of all, on US campuses and even amongst Jewish peace groups in America. Its opponents are aware of this, which is why there are so many attempts to counter the movement, with things like making laws to make boycott illegal or by things like having secret conferences - reported by Israeli news only, not American media - led by people like Haim Saban and Sheldon Adelson just last weekend in Vegas, attempting to counter the BDS campaign on American universities.

[wat0n]

He don't boycott Israel and apologised for that.
Orange has a bad agreement with a local company and now is the most expenssive communication company and is basicaly going to bankrupt. He closed his company in an ugly way though- to attract our peaceful neighbours. This very person say to each audience what it wants to hear.

Do you have any source on Orange/Partner's bad financial performance?

^ the people of Egypt support Palestinians (despite their prostitute-government). They are the customers of the phone company. The phone company is aware of this, hence the boycott.

Egypt is not a major oil producer and doesn't have trillions of dollars to offer to the West.

[skinster]

[LehmanB]

Do you have any source on Orange/Partner's bad financial performance?

Read in wikipedia Partner Tikshoret (in Hebrew), chapter- history. The company has lost 200,000 customers in 2013, and its a constant process. It has a serious problems with their director general who had to resign and got into debts. Its the most expenssive company today. I think.

The West already has close relations with those Arab and Muslim countries.

Thats true. They gain all the oil they want. In paralel, they also have relations with Israel. The only blockage for relations with some Arab countries is: Russia. Hence, Syria and Iran were out of the USA alliance. PEople who do not understand that, do not understand geo-politics.

How do close relations with Israel benefit the West?

The western society is built upon connections. Thats the main reason for them to beat the red ones (China and Russia/Nazis). So gaining connection with somebody- benefits your economy and culture. Thats something the Arab world do not see.
Specific with Israel, Israel is part of academic and cultural world, and part of the industry, food industry, armed industry and high tech. And diamond industry. Its just part of it, as many western countries are. But its presence is a plus. Its not dependency on Israel- its gaining from Israel. As Israel is gaining from the west- it gives a push to the leftists in Israel for example- these connections. I don't see how the countries who do boycott (the Arab league) - gained any influence on the Israeli society or on their societies, but hatred. But hey, isn't that what the BDS's promote?

[Rich]

Would it not be even more beneficial to have close relations with Arab and other Muslim nations which have trillions of oil revenue to spend on infrastructure projects?

From a cowardly short termist perspective maybe. Surely it would be better to use our military might to allow expansion of Jewish settlement into the oil producing areas.

[skinster]

Israel brands Palestinian-led boycott movement a 'strategic threat'

[The Awakener]

I always doubted the ability of international pressure (boycotts included) to truly help resolve internal conflicts such as this, in terms of creating the necessary conditions a long term solution. Mostly because I don't really trust most global powers, both economical and political.

This is a great case study. What did they accomplish? Now that dirt-bag Netanyahu just looks like a bigger hero, "saving" us little people from the big bad "world". Same thing as the whole FIFA situation, same thing as the whole well-timed, well-orchestrated melodrama between Netanyahu and Obama a while ago, which practically bought him the election in Israel. Works for Obama, of course, messing around with the middle east some more.

Well fuck that, we have enough trouble 'round here without European intervention. Responsible international intervention is possible, I've heard of many examples, but I usually doubt it.

[wat0n]

Lol

[skinster]

ynetlulz

[Atlantis]

I always doubted the ability of international pressure (boycotts included) to truly help resolve internal conflicts such as this, in terms of creating the necessary conditions a long term solution. Mostly because I don't really trust most global powers, both economical and political.

What about the apartheid regime in South Africa? Wasn't that brought down in the end due to international pressure?

I think sooner or later Israel will become a pariah internationally just like the white regime in South Africa. Israelis will be on the defensive wherever they go. The stigma of being part of pariah regime will slowly but surely undermine Israel's resolve to maintain the apartheid in Israel and the occupied territories.

Israelis are smart people, I'm sure that when it comes to that they will find leaders that can reach out to the Palestinians for forging a lasting peace. But they won't budge without outside pressure.

[skinster]

Gideon Levy: Israeli propaganda isn't fooling anyone – except Israelis

[The Awakener]

What about the apartheid regime in South Africa? Wasn't that brought down in the end due to international pressure?

Again, it is possible, I just doubt the intentions of most (not all, but most) western corporations (and western powers). Also, while I'm no expert on the apartheid of South Africa, I wouldn't discount the internal powers related to its end so quickly.

I think sooner or later Israel will become a pariah internationally just like the white regime in South Africa.

I somewhat doubt it. The west has interests in Israel remaining an ignitor of conflict in the middle east, and the nationalist and anti-Islamic trends in the west just seem to be getting stronger. Israel while more likely remain the "bastion" of the west in the middle east (which is absurd as almost half of the Jewish population in culturally middle eastern), and be both hated and loved for it.

Israelis will be on the defensive wherever they go.

Which really helps trust in others...

The stigma of being part of pariah regime will slowly but surely undermine Israel's resolve to maintain the apartheid in Israel and the occupied territories.

This has never worked so far and never will. All this international condemnation has done is strengthen those who wish Israel to remain in its current state, isolated and in an internal war and caused the so called "doves" to leave the country, or become so cynical that they have no better judgment than the so called "hawks" and are easily manipulated with false promises of peace.

Israelis are smart people, I'm sure that when it comes to that they will find leaders that can reach out to the Palestinians for forging a lasting peace. But they won't budge without outside pressure.

There are two scenarios in which I can envision anything changing. Either the west really stops supporting Israel, as so many left-wing westerners want, and have no doubt- this will lead to a war, or the internal powers that really want long-lasting peace triumph in the internal struggles, and are able to resist international intervention preventing their rise. The world can support these powers, and it has happened historically, but, as said, I tend to be doubtful if that is really the intention of most meddlers.

Gideon Levy: Israeli propaganda isn't fooling anyone – except Israelis

That's my point exactly. That's how it works.

[wat0n]

What about the apartheid regime in South Africa? Wasn't that brought down in the end due to international pressure?

No. It fell because a regime that deliberately keeps 90% of its population with low health and education attainment, and general poverty and lack of economic growth, cannot have a functioning modern economy.

[Rich]

This is bizarre, we've got ISIS Al Nusra, Boko Haram, the Saudi regime, the Bahrain regime. It just goes on and on. Why why why are people obsessing about Israel? Why is there no call to disinvest from Saudi Arabia or Bahrain?

[Atlantis]

Also, while I'm no expert on the apartheid of South Africa, I wouldn't discount the internal powers related to its end so quickly.

The apartheid regime could have continued the suppression of colored people indefinitely. It was never at any time physically threatened by a violent uprising. What brought it down was the international condemnation of the violence and the system of apartheid.

I somewhat doubt it. The west has interests in Israel remaining an ignitor of conflict in the middle east,

I don't know which part of the West you are from. But where I'm from, people certainly don't want to ignite conflict in the ME or elsewhere. In fact, most of our current problems including terrorism and waves of refugees are due to the conflicts in the ME.

"Israelis will be on the defensive wherever they go."
Which really helps trust in others...

We need to build trust between Israelis and Palestinians, not between Israelis and the West. When Israelis are made to feel unwelcome in the West, they will reconsider. That is exactly how apartheid was defeated. White South Africans considered themselves to be part of white Europe, yet when they came into contact with Europeans, they constantly had to defend the indefensible. They would constantly explain about how well they treated "their blacks" and how "their blacks" had it so much better than many Europeans. Add to that the economic sanctions, and you get quite some pressure building for change.

This has never worked so far and never will.

As I said, in the case of apartheid it did work. The difference is that the West was able to wholeheartedly back somebody like Nelson Mandela while even those who deplore the plight of the Palestinians feel uneasy about giving their full backing to Palestinians who might turn out to be terrorists who want to blow us up in the next minute.

For any resistance movement there is a fine line to tread. On the one hand, they can't be too violent because that will drain international support, on the other hand, they can't abandon violence altogether because the international community would loose interest. There needs to be a clear division between the military and the political wing of the uprising. I think the Palestinians are not handling that very well. The firecrackers Hamas sends into Israel have no military significance. They only give Israel the pretext to crack down hard on the Palestinians.

There are two scenarios in which I can envision anything changing. Either the west really stops supporting Israel, as so many left-wing westerners want, and have no doubt- this will lead to a war, or the internal powers that really want long-lasting peace triumph in the internal struggles, and are able to resist international intervention preventing their rise. The world can support these powers, and it has happened historically, but, as said, I tend to be doubtful if that is really the intention of most meddlers.

I don't believe in black and white scenarios. The West will not stop supporting Israel completely. But there can be a graded approach. There can be a "carrot and stick" approach. But most of all, since it always takes two to tango, the Palestinians would have to play along. Extremists on both sides could always use terror to torpedo any peace process. Thus, there needs to be a moderate majority that supports the process and is not deterred by the extremists. Palestinian strategy hasn't been successful so far; therefore, they don't have anything to loose by changing tactics.

[skinster]

This is bizarre, we've got ISIS Al Nusra, Boko Haram, the Saudi regime, the Bahrain regime. It just goes on and on. Why why why are people obsessing about Israel? Why is there no call to disinvest from Saudi Arabia or Bahrain?

You are currently at level 6 on the hasbara scale.