219,464 Palestinians treated in Israel hospitals in 2012 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

Moderator: PoFo Middle-East Mods

Forum rules: No one-line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum moderated in English, so please post in English only. Thank you.
#14369413
Yes, Yes, It's "Genocide" I tell you!
Despite all the hyperbolic chatter seeking to paint Israelis as Nazis, Palestinians routinely get treatment at Israel medical facilities. From pregnancies, to enemy combatants, to bicycle broken arms, to STD treatment, it's all in there. When they have a problem, they know where to turn to despite their own rhetoric meant for Western consumption.

Increase in Palestinians Treated in Israeli Hospitals
Aug 2, 2013
http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/08/02/increase-in-palestinians-treated-in-israeli-hospitals/
"A report published recently by Israel’s Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories Unit (COGAT) shows that
219,464 Palestinian patients received medical treatment in Israeli hospitals during 2012 – 21,270 of them children...."


Victor Davis Hanson
National Review
http://old.nationalreview.com/hanson/ha ... 230833.asp
"..The Palestinians will, in fact, get their de facto state, though one that may be now cut off entirely from Israeli commerce and cultural intercourse. This is an apparently terrifying thought:
Palestinian men can no longer blow up Jews on Monday, seek Dialysis from them on Tuesday, get an Israeli paycheck on Wednesday, demonstrate to CNN cameras about the injustice of it all on Thursday — and then go back to tunneling under Gaza and three-hour, all-male, conspiracy-mongering sessions in coffee-houses on Friday.
Beware of getting what you bomb for.".."

`
#14369425
abu afak wrote:Except there are probably no more than a few dozen Palestinians shot by Israelis in 2012.
I'll wager more Palestinian shooting victims are shot by Fellow Palestinians.
And of course, shooting victims would be a TINY fraction of the 219,000 treated.
`


That's alright then. What about my other question?
#14369429
Jihsan wrote:
That's alright then. What about my other question?
Jihsan wrote:...
Why do you think Palestinians have so many health problems in the first place?

Your other question is a Moronic one. (a classic "when did you stop beating your wife" clone)
"Why do palestinians have so many health problems in the first place?"
You HAVEN'T shown they DO have more than Any other group per capita.

Further, most palestinians can get some FREE medical care (and lots more) from the UNRWA which is supported by the USA/EU.
Palestinians are in far better shape than Residents MOST Arab countries, in fact.
Palestine has one of the LOWEST incidences of stunted growth in the Arab World, lower even than in oil rich Saudi Arabia.

`
Last edited by abu afak on 27 Feb 2014 20:17, edited 7 times in total.
#14369436
abu afak wrote:Your other question is a Moronic one.
"Why do palestinians have so many health problems in the first place?"
You HAVEN'T shown they DO have more than Any other group per capita.
DUH.
DUH.

Further, most palestinians can get some FREE medical care (and lots more) from the UNRWA which is supported by the USA/EU.
Palestinians are in far better shape than Residents MOST Arab countries, in fact.
Palestine has one of the LOWEST incidences of stunted growth in the Arab World, lower even than in oil rich Saudi Arabia.

`


Yeah right.

Palestinian Health Care Conditions Under Occupation

Members of the Ibdaa Health Committee are on tour in the US. They are educating Americans on the devastating health conditions of Palestinians and health care workers in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza.

The facts on the ground are shocking, yet the international community ignores Israel’s widespread violence and warfare against the Palestinians. The violence against health care workers, the health care system and the Palestinian infrastructure are equally appalling.

According to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, 36 health care workers have been killed, 447 health providers have been wounded and 129 patients have died at Israeli checkpoints. How? There have been 375 attacks on health care centers, 383 attacks on ambulances, with 38 ambulances destroyed altogether.

Palestinian women in labor have not been left out of the equation of military occupation. Since September 28, 2000, at least 67 women have given birth at Israeli checkpoints. As a result, 39 newborns died or they were delivered stillborn.

According to a map from the Applied Research Institute Jerusalem there are over 100 established checkpoints throughout the West Bank, an area totaling 5,970 sq. km, and this figure does not include flying checkpoints and barriers, such as roadblocks, razed roads, dirt mounds, etc. When Israel completes construction of the wall, approximately 33 per cent of villages within the West Bank will be denied “…free and open access to their health care system,” per the IHC. Moreover, 81 per cent “…of people living in isolated zones and enclaves cannot access primary health clinics, medical centers, and hospitals as needed.”

There are instances where Palestinians need access to urgent medical care, but Israeli forces will not allow Palestinian ambulances to cross the checkpoint. When this happens Palestinians are forced to transfer to an Israeli ambulance, which costs anywhere from 350 New Israeli Shekels (NIS) – 650 NIS ($80 USD – 150 USD). Keep in mind that an estimated 50 per cent of Palestinians in the West Bank live below the poverty line ($2 USD per person/day). The average unemployment rate for Palestinians in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza combined is over 60 per cent. In essence, the Israeli occupation has created business opportunities from Palestinians in need of urgent medical care that already impoverishes Palestinian families who struggle to meet their daily needs.

A Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) survey about the effects of Israeli measures on the economic conditions of Palestinian families found that 86 per cent of households decreased their spending for food. Moreover, over 66 per cent of households surveyed decreased their expenditures for health care. Some demographic factors for consideration are that 46 per cent of Palestinian families are 14 years of age or younger and 18 per cent of these families have children who are under four years of age (PCBS – 2005 population results).

Another dimension to this grim picture is that the IHC found there has been a decline in the quantity and quality of food in 73 per cent of the West Bank and Gaza. A recent example is the 2006 closing of Karni Crossing (Al-Mintar), which has resulted in severe shortages in food, such as flour and rice. Since Palestinians can not export their goods, such as peppers, tomatoes and carnations to Europe, it has resulted in losses compounding into millions of dollars thereby crippling the Palestinian economy. For the few days Israeli forces opened the crossing, it operated at 10 per cent capacity. In the West Bank 83 per cent of Palestinian families have difficulty accessing local and commodity markets because of the wall.

Although US media reports explanatory reasons behind IDF operations (they are targeting “terrorists,”), the US news fails to report that the occupation and its ramifications target Palestinian youth, along with the civil and governmental infrastructure they live in.

An online daily news source is Ma’an News Agency, which provides up-to-the-minute news coverage of the Holy Land.

Ibdaa Health Committee

Members of the IHC toured the US to increase public awareness on the Palestinian health care situation. They asked for American cooperation and collaboration in future endeavors within the health care system.

Basically, they asked people to hold fundraisers and foundations to consider funding medical equipment, medicines, patient, and child sponsorship. Also they asked for physicians, nurses, psychologists, social workers, sociologists, healthcare professionals, mental healthcare professionals, and medical students interested in volunteering their time and expertise to help with medical services and training within the Palestinian health care system.

The IHC focused on Dheisheh Refugee camp, located outside of Bethlehem because the members grew up in this area. IHC members are volunteers who formed the committee to safeguard public health and improve the overall health care situation. Some of the IHC’s objectives are to provide a long-term, health educational program, establish a psycho-social program, provide a nutritional counseling program, establish a diabetes and education treatment center, establish an ophthalmology center to provide eye examinations, corrective treatment and prevention and establish a child abuse prevention center.

With regards to the 6,000 children living in Dheisheh over 95 per cent of the camp’s children suffer from psycho-social problems. Although several hundred children screened were diagnosed with poor vision, over 60 per cent came from families who could not afford to pay for eyeglasses. These examples represent some of the effects occupation has on children.

One of the members shared that allegedly some of Israel’s canned food sold in Palestinian markets contains high levels of E211, also known as sodium benzoate. In the US the FDA regulates that products with sodium benzoate must contain less than .1 per cent. High levels of E211 in preserved food can potentially affect peoples’ health and has raised moderate concern from this US research group http://www.inchem.org/documents/cicads/ ... icad26.htm

Since further research is needed, opportunities exist for both Israeli and Palestinian medical and scientific researchers, as well as the international community to collaborate on future endeavors for this important public health situation.

A logical response might be that people should buy fresh food instead of preserved food. The problem is how do Palestinians access unreachable markets and jobs under occupation and where do money trees grow so people can pay for it?

For the Palestinian farmers who still have olive and citrus orchards Israeli bulldozers have uprooted over one million trees over the last 39 years as they continue colonizing Palestinian land.

For Palestinians, access to clean water is a crisis and here is why it exists.

There are over four million Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza. The Palestinian Ministry of Health has 23 hospitals and 799 hospital beds for the entire population. There are .71 nurses for every hospital bed.

Although the IHC came to share the needs of Dheisheh and its 13,000 residents, this refugee camp represents the 59 refugee camps across the West Bank and Gaza that have the same needs for medical and office equipment and supplies. Here is additional information about the challenges facing the Palestinian health care system from Jerusalem.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/palestinia ... ation/2243

British Journal Warns of 'Urgent' Palestinian Health Crisis

http://www.voanews.com/content/palestin ... 22671.html


So you kill all their f**** health care workers and then are surprised to see them asking Israel for help ?
#14369446
AGAIN, you have NOT shown Palestinians have any more problems health-wise than ANY Other Arab country/Neighbor.
You merely posted a POS hit piece from CONSPIRACY website 'GlobalResearch', a wack job favorite.
And even then ONLY during a Hot-war/emergency period/2006 between Israel and [only] Gaza.
God forbid they lose the Israel Lifeline for a few weeks.

In fact, the average Palestinian is in Much better shape health-care wise than the Average Cairene!

ie,
Half of Egyptian children below poverty line - Unicef
February 19, 2010 |
http://www.indiaedunews.net/Internation ... cef_10695/

Indeed, due to the safety net of Israel and the UNRWA, Stunted growth afflicts Only 10% of Palestinian children while it is Much Higher in the rest of the Arab world:

UN report on Middle East catalogues widening inequality
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/sep2002/mid-s12.shtml
And that was just Before the Riots.
"..."The report cites the stunted growth of children as a growing phenomenon in the Middle East. In some states the number of children growing up stunted form a higher percentage than those attaining normal height. This is particularly the case in populations that have experienced extreme poverty and war over an extended period, including Yemen, Iraq and Sudan.

Anthropometry measures show that stunted growth among children is as high as 52% in Yemen, 44% in Mauritania, with rates in Comoros and Iraq above 30%. In Egypt, Kuwait, Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, Morocco, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Syrian Arab Republic and the UAE, levels of stunted growth are recorded at levels of between 15% and 25%."..."
Again: Palestine, due to the UNRWA and Israel, is in Far Better Shape than all but the very Rich Arab countries, and perhaps even better than in many of those like rich Saudi Arabia.

Further:
What Occupation
Ephraim Karsh
http://www.aish.com/jw/me/48898917.html

Prior to the 1967 war, fewer than 60% of all male adults had been employed, with unemployment among refugees running as high as 83%. Within a brief period after the war, Israeli Occupation had led to Dramatic improvements in general well-being, placing the population of the territories ahead of most of their Arab neighbors. In the economic sphere, most of this progress was the result of access to the far larger and more advanced Israeli economy: the number of Palestinians working in Israel rose from Zero in 1967 to 66,000 in 1975 and 109,000 by 1986, accounting for 35% of the employed population of the West Bank and 45% in Gaza....

During the 1970's, the West Bank and Gaza constituted the 4th fastest-growing economy in the world-ahead of such "wonders" as Singapore, Hong Kong, and Korea, and substantially ahead of Israel itself. Although GNP per capita grew somewhat more slowly, the rate was still high by international standards, with per-capita GNP expanding TENFOLD between 1968 and 1991 from $165 to $1,715 (compared with Jordan's $1,050, Egypt's $600, Turkey's $1,630, and Tunisia's $1,440).
By 1999, Palestinian per-capita income was nearly Double Syria's, more than 4x Yemen's, and 10% higher than Jordan's (one of the better off Arab states). Only the oil-rich Gulf states and Lebanon were more affluent.

Under Israeli rule, the Palestinians also made Vast progress in social welfare. Perhaps most significantly, mortality rates in the West Bank and Gaza fell by more than 2/3s between 1970 and 1990, while life expectancy rose from 48 years in 1967 to 72 in 2000 (compared with an avg of 68 for countries of Middle East/North Africa).

Israeli medical programs reduced the infant-mortality rate of 60 per 1,000 live births in 1968 to 15 per 1,000 in 2000 (in Iraq the rate is 64, in Egypt 40, in Jordan 23, in Syria 22).
And under a systematic program of Innoculation, Childhood diseases like polio, whooping cough, tetanus, and measles were eradicated.


No less remarkable were advances in the Palestinians' standard of living.
By 1986, 92.8% of the population in the West Bank and Gaza had electricity around the clock, as compared to 20.5% in 1967;
85% had running water in dwellings, as compared to 16% in 1967;
83.5% had electric or gas ranges for cooking, as compared to 4% in 1967;

and so on for refrigerators, televisions, and cars.

Finally...during the two decades preceding the intifada of the late 1980's, the number of schoolchildren in the territories grew by 102%, and the number of classes by 99%, though the population itself had grown by only 28%.
Even more dramatic was the progress in Higher education. At the time of the Israeli occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, Not a Single University existed in these territories. By the early 1990's, there were Seven such institutions, boasting some 16,500 students.
Illiteracy rates Dropped to 14% of adults over age 15, compared with 69% in Morocco, 61% in Egypt, 45% in Tunisia, and 44% in Syria.


ALL THIS, as I have noted, took place against the backdrop of Israel's hands-off policy in the political and administrative spheres....
Last edited by abu afak on 27 Feb 2014 20:04, edited 1 time in total.
#14369457
OK so lets assume you are right. (this is another one of those no win situations for obvious reasons )

So what are you exactly expecting? The Palestinians to thank Israel for stealing 95% of their homelands because Israel provides good health care afterwards? Should the Palestinians be thankful their homes were bulldozed, if they hadn't been bulldozed, they'd be no one to look after their health?
Should they be celebrating? should they "pay extra" for their healthcare? would it help if some healthy Palestinians were to "donate" their organs to help fellow Israeli citizens? I'm confused, can you please elaborate? why is this supposed to be good news for Palestinians? you want to show the world that Israel actually looks after their victims?

By the way, I fully support Israel's right to exist and their right to Palestine... but I'm not entirely satisfied with their justification.
#14369464
Jihsan wrote:OK so lets assume you are right. (this is another one of those no win situations for obvious reasons )

So what are you exactly expecting? The Palestinians to thank Israel for stealing 95% of their homelands because Israel provides good health care afterwards?
So now that you've conceded Both my previous points, one "for argumentation"/lack of reply...

Documentation for Ridiculous claim "stealing 95% of their homeland"?

Jihsan wrote: Should the Palestinians be thankful their homes were bulldozed, if they hadn't been bulldozed, they'd be no one to look after their health?
Should they be celebrating? should they "pay extra" for their healthcare? would it help if some healthy Palestinians were to "donate" their organs to help fellow Israeli citizens? I'm confused, can you please elaborate? why is this supposed to be good news for Palestinians? you want to show the world that Israel actually looks after their victims?
By the way, I fully support Israel's right to exist and their right to Palestine... but I'm not entirely satisfied with their justification.
Palestinian homes were "bulldozed" in an attempt to try and stop the terror attacks after the year 2000 intifada.
If you are referring to 1948, that was a War the Arabs started because they were NOT willing to share Palestine.
There would have been NO 'refugees' if they had accepted the 2 state solution. (a 100% Arab Palestine, and a 60/40 Jewish state, Israel)
`
#14369470
abu afak wrote:Documentation for Ridiculous claim "stealing 95% of their homeland"?


Actually it's probably now more than 95%, considering the map says year 2000. Israel will not rest until they get 101%.

Image

Palestinian homes were "bulldozed" in an attempt to try and stop the terror attacks after the year 2000 intifada.
If you are referring to 1948, that was a War the Arabs started because they were NOT willing to share Palestine.
There would have been NO 'refugees' if they had accepted the 2 state solution. (a 100% Arab Palestine, and a 60/40 Jewish state, Israel)
`


So you wanted to kill, bulldoze their homes for their own good, their own safety? I see.... I can break into your mansion and kick (or kill) your family out, destroy your neighbors home, if you refuse to reside (share) in the garden or basement with your family? and even invite all my religiously affiliated friends and extended family from abroad (all around the world) to take over the town and eventually the whole country nice.

btw, you've completely ignored my question.

Here is the true story:

[youtube]-cL7kUOXVsA[/youtube]

[youtube]Vjm75t58c-Q[/youtube]
#14369531
Ah yes, the Ridiculous old "Four Maps" thing above.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... ain/37401/
"...The first map in the series of four is most egregious."...

As to the rest of your juvenile LINK DUMP (two kwazy Youtubes besides the jpg), I would be glad to answer any SPECIFIC Issue IF you can excerpt it in your own words, that is.

You've wiped out on the previous/OP+ points.
`
Last edited by abu afak on 28 Feb 2014 15:25, edited 1 time in total.
#14369789
Jihsan wrote:
Actually it's probably now more than 95%, considering the map says year 2000. Israel will not rest until they get 101%.

Image


You do know that this "map" is utterly nonesnse? To the point of deceving and maybe a lie?

I showed Buzz, I even provided him with facts and evidence...



So you wanted to kill, bulldoze their homes for their own good, their own safety? I see.... I can break into your mansion and kick (or kill) your family out, destroy your neighbors home, if you refuse to reside (share) in the garden or basement with your family? and even invite all my religiously affiliated friends and extended family from abroad (all around the world) to take over the town and eventually the whole country nice.

btw, you've completely ignored my question.

Here is the true story:

[youtube]-cL7kUOXVsA[/youtube]

[youtube]Vjm75t58c-Q[/youtube]


Pfff... True histroy...Is it never occured to you not use "resources" with these kind of headlines?


For your "So you kill all their f**** health care workers and then are surprised to see them asking Israel for help ?" question :

Let put aside all the populist nonesense thats running here, I tell you from first sight (I work in a hospital that take care in the majority of Palestinians, at least I think, I never checked numbers but there are a lot of Palestinians at any current time). Most of them 99%, are not comming to Israel to get a treatment becuase of gun wounds as you sarcasticaly implied, they come to be treated because there is no where else. See, I don't know if you guys know but most countires around here are not really "happy" to help....Plus, Israeli medicine is in one of the top places in World medicine...

For your other claim about IDF destroying hospitals : Well, there was one guy (Famous actor) named Mohamed Bakri, who after the 2003 Operation called "Homat Magen" (Wall of Shield), released a film called "Jenin Jenin". In that film, he claimed that the IDF destroyed hospitals during that Operations and preformed War crimes. Plus in that time, the PA authority released information that related to number of victims and other stuff that turned out later to be falsehood..(Shoking..), Here is some of the findings that pretty much debunked their claims :

I was present at a private viewing of the film "Jenin, Jenin", by Muhammad Bakri, at the Jerusalem Cinematheque. The limited audience included Lia van Leer, Director of the Cinematheque, and some journalists. At the end of the screening, I reacted by pointing out, one by one, the lies and lack of truth shown in the film. One of the participants responded furiously, "if you cannot accept the facts in the film, you apparently do not understand anything, and how can you be a doctor?" For a moment I forgot that I had been in Jenin last April, serving in the capacity of doctor for IDF forces in the area, while this esteemed viewer's information came, at best, from rumors. Bakri has woven together lies and half-truths so skillfully that it is difficult to withstand the temptation to be drawn into the distorted picture he has created.

I failed to convince the Cinematheque's management to cancel the screening. I was told that the images of destroyed houses are authentic and that, therefore, there is truth in the film, and that anyway, the film will be screened throughout the world. I was nevertheless invited to the film's Jerusalem premiere, and I went, so that I could use the opportunity to explain my position to the audience. Following are some of the points that I had hoped to raise.

1. The director of the hospital in Jenin, Dr. Abu-Rali, claims in the film that the western wing of the hospital was shelled and destroyed, and that the IDF purposely disrupted the supply of water and electricity to the hospital. The truth is that there never was such a wing and, in any case, no part of the hospital was shelled or bombed.

Indeed, IDF soldiers were careful not to enter the hospital grounds, even though we knew that they were being used to shelter wanted persons. We maintained the supply of water, electricity and oxygen to the hospital throughout the course of the fighting, and helped set up an emergency generator after the electricity grid in the city was damaged.

Bakri himself is seen in the film wandering around the clean, preserved corridors of the hospital, but not in the "bombed" wing. I met him outside the auditorium and asked him if he had visited the western wing. At first he said no, and then immediately corrected himself. "Just a minute, you remember the glass that broke in the film - that was from there."

It is important to note that Abu-Rali is one of the "authorized sources" on which the claim of a "massacre" is based. At the beginning of the operation, he was interviewed on the TV station Al-Jazeera and spoke of "thousands of casualties."

2. Another impressive segment of the film is an interview with a 75-year-old resident of Jenin who, crying bitterly, testified that he had been taken from his bed in the middle of the night and shot in the hand, and, when he failed to obey the soldiers' orders to get up, was shot again in the foot.

This same elderly man was brought to me for treatment after a clean-up operation in one of the houses used by a Hamas cell in the refuge camp. He had indeed sustained a slight injury to the hand and suffered from light abrasions on his leg (although certainly not a bullet wound). IDF soldiers brought him to the station for treating the wounded, and there he was treated, including by me.

One of the army doctors diagnosed heart failure, and we immediately offered to transfer him for treatment to the "Emek" Hospital in Afula. He requested to be treated at the hospital in Jenin since he was not fluent in Hebrew. After the Jenin hospital refused to admit him, we transferred him to Afula. He was in the internal medicine ward for three days and received treatment for heart problems and anemia, from which he suffered as a result of an existing chronic disease.

3. Another interviewee told the story of a baby hit by a bullet that penetrated the baby's chest, passed through its body and created a large exit wound in its back. According to the information supplied in the film, the baby died after soldiers prevented his evacuation to hospital. However, the baby's body was never found. Furthermore, if such a wound had been in fact inflicted, it would have certainly been fatal, and evacuation to hospital would not have saved the baby's life. What was the baby's name? What happened to the body?

4. The same person also claimed that he used his finger to open an airway in a child's neck after he was wounded. Again, this is a total fabrication. It is impossible to perform such an operation with one's finger. This "witness" also told how tanks rolled over people, again and again, crushing them alive - this, too, never happened.

5. The film mentions mass graves in which the IDF put the Palestinians who were killed. All of the international organizations that investigated this matter are in agreement that a total of 52 Palestinians were killed in Jenin, and their bodies were turned over to the Palestinians for burial. Bakri did not even bother to show the location of these so-called mass graves.

6. The film claims that Israeli planes bombed the city. This is untrue. In order to avoid civilian casualties, only accurate gunfire from helicopters was used.

7. Another point worth noting is that Bakri was not in Jenin during the operation; he arrived two weeks after its conclusion. The destroyed area in the center of the city was filmed in such a way as to appear substantially bigger than it really was, and the posters of "martyrs" and Jihad slogans that covered the walls during the operation were all gone.

The film repeatedly manipulates visual images, showing tanks that had been photographed in other places juxtaposed artificially with pictures of Palestinian children. This is crude, albeit well-done, manipulation.



This is an actual quote from the U.N report on Jenin:
“The number of Palestinian fatalities, on the basis of bodies recovered to date, in Jenin and the refugee camp in this military operation can be estimated at around 55. Of those, a number were civilians, four were women and two children. There were 23 Israeli fatalities in the fighting operations in Jenin.”

In Their Own Words: Palestinian Statements Demonstrate that Israel's Actions in Jenin Were Clearly Warranted

§ The Palestinian fighters in Jenin spoke of how they booby-trapped the camp elaborately, armed themselves with explosive belts and grenades and enlisted women and children into the battle.

§ "Believe me, there are children stationed in the houses with explosive belts at their sides."

-Abu Jandal, Islamic Jihad commander

§ "We have prepared unexpected surprises for the enemy….We have prepared a special graveyard in the Jenin camp for them."

-Ali Safori, Islamic Jihad Al-Quds
Brigades commander

§ "We had more than 50 houses booby-trapped around the camp. We chose old and empty buildings and the houses of men who were wanted by Israel because we knew the soldiers would search for them."

-"Omar," Islamic Jihad bomb-maker



http://students.washington.edu/israeluw/info-jenin.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_to_Jenin

About the "Massacre" in Jenin :
http://www.peacewithrealism.org/pdc/jenin.htm

All in all, I gave you a really small part of the picture.
#14370014
Pugsville wrote:SO Israel issues a few band aids so what? Israel maintains a military occupation the Palestinian population denying human, civil and politician rights. It is wrong. It should dome to an end as soon as possible.
Now that we are done with the ridiculous crap, it is clear that the Palestinians LOST their much desired but never obtained in the history of the region 'right' to self rule when they sided in with those that wanted to exterminate the Jews. Asking the Israelis to give free reign to the Palestinian's is like asking a home owner to allow a nest of rattle snakes to grow and thrive in his front room. Using Gaza as a model it is also clear that those violent little snakes are not going to be in charge of the west bank anytime soon. And Syria, Iraq, Egypt, and the Gulf States are all done financing any Reconquista of the region on the behalf of the Palestinians and Russia isn't going to pick up where the soviet Union left off.

Israel dos a lot more than issue band aids to those leeches but even if it was only band aids it would be better than what they have done for themselves. The Palestinians are their own worst enemy.
#14370030
Pugsville wrote:So their is some historical event that makes the Palestinians GUITLY and thus not deserving of being treated as human beings, racist clap trap.
Anyone that doesn't see the situation as you do...'the Palestinians are in the right' you label a racist... how idiotic. You simply do not want to accept the fact that the Palestinians are now subject to a universal truth, you will reap what you sew. I feel sorry for the Palestinians...sorry that they are too dumb to chart an intelligent course through their troubles.
#14370050
No I just think people should treated the same.

The Germans actually carried out the holocaust are you advocating the Germans should be keep under eternal military occupation and denied any political rights, or the same for any Nations that cooperated in some way.

During the mandate plenty of Jews turned to terrorism, does that mean that for all time all Israelis should be denied political rights for eternity?

So Palestinians children in the born in the west bank are somehow guilty and should be permanently denied any political rights.

Your excuses for the denial of political rights seems to only belong to Palestinians.
#14370102
Pugsville wrote:No I just think people should treated the same.

People should be treated in accordance with their recent and present conduct and that is the way the Palestinian's are being treated.

Pugsville wrote:So Palestinians children in the born in the west bank are somehow guilty and should be permanently denied any political rights.

You mean the ones that are being trained to see Jews as pigs that are fit only for extermination? They don't need any political rights because that would only embolden them to even more naughty behavior and bring even more vigorous repression and retribution. It would be like giving retarded children loaded guns.

Once the Palestinians become a rational group (an absurd notion) things will change, as it is now the only way to deal with them is via a policy of containment.

If the Palestinians think that Israel is ever going to give away their sovereignty or the Jewish state they are dumber than they look.
#14370128
You really think that is some sort of representative view on how Palestinian children are raised? The effect of what anti-Israel propaganda is weak compared to the continuing brutal Israeli occupation.

What exact benchmarks would the Palestinians have tpo be achieved to be allowed political rights?

So the Zionists should have been denied a state in 1948 due to their terrorism?

This is a lie. You're not that stupid or ignorant[…]

Neither is an option too. Neither have your inte[…]

Israel-Palestinian War 2023

@JohnRawls There is no ethnic cleansing going o[…]

They are building a Russian Type nuclear reactor..[…]