[wat0n]

Who says Israel is currently ruling Gaza?

If it was, how come Hamas manages to use the governmental apparatus of Gaza to build tunnels crossing into Israeli territory?

[Rich]

Who says Israel is currently ruling Gaza?

If it was, how come Hamas manages to use the governmental apparatus of Gaza to build tunnels crossing into Israeli territory?

Hamas is functionally a Kapo government. The Israelis have learnt from South African Apartheid. The problem with the Bantustans is that weren't seen as legitemate. TheBantustans were a great idea, but what you needed was for the Bantustans to fire a few fireworks at the Whites from time to day and they would have been celebrated as principled anti racist anti imperialist heroes. Waton you've got to look at the Lavon affair if you want to understand how the Zionist mind works. These people will happily murder their own women and children if helps to demonise the Arabs. These people are not bound by the moral limitations of ordinary western people, they don't have consciences like ordinary western people, but of course they very much understand how the ordinary westerners conscience works so they are utterly brilliant at manipulating it. in fact they're suberb at manipulating the whole situation, getting people who are opposed to Israel to end up supporting the staus Quo while imagining that they are fighting it.

The Zionists are the masters of dialectic totalitarianism pluralism. Hence the implacability of the Ziono-Islamic middle Eastern order. Of course it must also be noted that the Christian Church was also a master of dialectic totalitarianism: You must believe there is only one God and that there are three Gods.

You see the problem with Fatah and Hams is not that they are too extreme but that they are too moderate. This is why Israel facilitated the growth of Hamas as extremist group that could undermine Fatah. The problem is that Hams have moderated. they are in danger of becoming respectable, legitimate. Hence why Israel have become ever more hysterical about them.

[wat0n]

Hamas is functionally a Kapo government. The Israelis have learnt from South African Apartheid. The problem with the Bantustans is that weren't seen as legitemate. TheBantustans were a great idea, but what you needed was for the Bantustans to fire a few fireworks at the Whites from time to day and they would have been celebrated as principled anti racist anti imperialist heroes. Waton you've got to look at the Lavon affair if you want to understand how the Zionist mind works. These people will happily murder their own women and children if helps to demonise the Arabs. These people are not bound by the moral limitations of ordinary western people, they don't have consciences like ordinary western people, but of course they very much understand how the ordinary westerners conscience works so they are utterly brilliant at manipulating it. in fact they're suberb at manipulating the whole situation, getting people who are opposed to Israel to end up supporting the staus Quo while imagining that they are fighting it.

The Zionists are the masters of dialectic totalitarianism pluralism. Hence the implacability of the Ziono-Islamic middle Eastern order. Of course it must also be noted that the Christian Church was also a master of dialectic totalitarianism: You must believe there is only one God and that there are three Gods.

You see the problem with Fatah and Hams is not that they are too extreme but that they are too moderate. This is why Israel facilitated the growth of Hamas as extremist group that could undermine Fatah. The problem is that Hams have moderated. they are in danger of becoming respectable, legitimate. Hence why Israel have become ever more hysterical about them.

Your silly conspiracy theories notwithstanding, if Hamas were kapo government in anyway whatsoever, it would not be fighting Israel. It has not really become moderate, it has just learned it has responsibilities precisely ever since, and because, it rules Gaza.

[annatar1914]

I think the 2000+-72 death ratio in the last conflict would be enough to sway many an opinion regardless of political leanings.

The sadness of the way of the World is such, that as Stalin once said; "One death is a tragedy, but a million deaths is a statistic". There is a reason why the Arabs lost those wars to the Jews, and it isn't that the Jews are superior or the Arabs inferior.

[jessupjonesjnr87]

Yeah the reason is that Israel has the unwavering support of the worlds greatest super power.

[anarchist23]

Everyone knows that Netanyahu is a liar and a cheat but still the US hands out aid to the Israelis. Why? Israel is a US military base.

The White House issued a passionate call for eventual Palestinian statehood on Monday as it stepped up criticism of the Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, for appearing to question a two-state solution to Middle East peace.

“An occupation that has lasted for almost 50 years must end,” Barack Obama’s chief of staff, Denis McDonough, told a conference of liberal activists in Washington. “Israel cannot maintain military control of another people indefinitely,” he added.

Despite Netanyahu’s efforts to distance himself from pre-election comments that appeared to rule out a Palestinian state, the US administration remains sceptical about his commitment to peace.

“We cannot simply pretend that those comments were never made, or that they don’t raise questions about the prime minister’s commitment to achieving peace through direct negotiations,” McDonough told 3,000 delegates at the national conference of J-Street, a Washington lobby group which describes itself as pro-Israel but supports a two-state peace process for a Palestinian state.

“Palestinian children deserve the same right to be free in their own land as Israeli children in their land,” he added. “A two-state solution will finally bring Israelis the security and normalcy to which they are entitled, and Palestinians the sovereignty and dignity they deserve.”

Though official US policy has long favoured a two-state solution, the stridency of McDonough’s comments in front of the sympathetic J-Street audience perhaps also reflects a desire to stop peace talks disappearing from the Israeli political agenda as Netanyahu forms a new government.

“The United States will continue to keep an open line of communication, starting at the top levels, but also among other senior members of the Netanyahu administration as they form a government,” said the press secretary, Josh Earnest, when asked about the issue at the White House media briefing.

However, McDonough denied suggestions that their clash was simply “a matter of personal pique” with Netanyahu due to his separate opposition to US nuclear talks with Iran.

“We cannot give up on the idea that peace is possible, because peace will make Israel stronger,” insisted the chief of staff.

“A ‘one-state solution’ would effectively end Israel’s nature as a Jewish and democratic state,” he added. “Unilateral annexation of the West Bank territories would be both wrong and illegal. The United States would never support it, and it’s unlikely Israel’s other friends would either. It would only contribute to Israel’s isolation.”

Analysis Netanyahu backtracks on rejecting two states, but damage is already done
Israeli PM’s rhetoric may have helped him get re-elected, but he now faces an escalating diplomatic crisis with an already agitated Obama administration

Just two days after apparently ruling out a Palestinian state on the eve of Israel’s general election, Netanyahu attempted to row back on his comments, implying he was still open to talks. But he has come under unusually forthright criticism from a string of Obama administration officials – including the US president himself.

On Sunday, Obama renewed his criticism of the Israeli prime minister’s pre-election comments, saying that Netanyahu’s apparent rejection of a two-state solution had made it “hard to find a path” towards serious negotiations.

On Monday, Netanyahu apologised for a statement on election day that appeared to warn against the influence of Arab-Israeli voters.

“I know the things I said a few days ago hurt some Israeli citizens,” he said. “My actions as prime minister, including massive investment in minority sectors, prove the exact opposite.”

But this apology did little to mend relations with the White House, which stressed the true test would be Netanyahu’s actions on the peace process.

“It certainly seems like his comments [on Monday] were appropriate,” said Earnest. “But the statements that we have made over the last week about the need to re-evaluate US policy is actually predicated on Prime Minister Netanyahu’s comments that legitimately call into question his commitment to a two-state solution.

“At the heart of any democracy is the right of all citizens to participate equally,” added McDonough in his speech.

Guardian.

[ArtAllm]

How in God's name is Obama doing Iran's bidding? Have you no dignity? Does not America and the West not grovel sufficiently before our Zionist masters? The Fifth fleet sits in Bahrain defending the Sunni terror regime. We consort with Saudi, Pakistan, Qatar how can that add up to doing Iran's bidding in anything but the minds odf demented Jewish supremacists?

Well, USA and the West are doing "Iran's bidding" because they so blindly support Israel.

The western governments are exposing their own dependence more and more, the world opinion is changing, even low-IQ people can see now that Obama and the smaller western leaders are just puppets, and this strengthens the position of Iran.

Your silly conspiracy theories notwithstanding, if Hamas were kapo government in anyway whatsoever, it would not be fighting Israel. It has not really become moderate, it has just learned it has responsibilities precisely ever since, and because, it rules Gaza.

Hamas is a "controlled opposition", and it does not present any real danger to Israel's security.

It was in the interests of Israel to transform the Palestinian conflict into the conflict with Islam, and now Zionists promote the idea that the "Judeo-Christian Civilization" is in war with "Muslim-Civilization".

The PLO was not dominated by Islam, the Palestinian Christians were overrepresented in this Organisation.

That was not good for Israel.

But now many stupid Christians believe that there is a war with "Islamofascism", and that they have to support Israel and the Zionists who are fighting for "our freedom" against "them Muslims".

It seems that Palestinian Christians do not count any more, because there is a "war with Islam", and that propaganda effect was achieved due to the actions of Hamas.

Who says Israel is currently ruling Gaza?

No, "ruling" is the wrong exprssion.

If Israel was really ruling Gaza, then Zionists would have some responsibility for people who are living there, which is not the case.

The real term is "besiegement". There is a besiegement of Gaza by the Zionist regime.

[wat0n]

Hamas is a "controlled opposition", and it does not present any real danger to Israel's security.

It was in the interests of Israel to transform the Palestinian conflict into the conflict with Islam, and now Zionists promote the idea that the "Judeo-Christian Civilization" is in war with "Muslim-Civilization".

The PLO was not dominated by Islam, the Palestinian Christians were overrepresented in this Organisation.

That was not good for Israel.

But now many stupid Christians believe that there is a war with "Islamofascism", and that they have to support Israel and the Zionists who are fighting for "our freedom" against "them Muslims".

It seems that Palestinian Christians do not count any more, because there is a "war with Islam", and that propaganda effect was achieved due to the actions of Hamas.

The PLO had ties with communists, which for the West used to be even worse than being an Islamist back in the day.

And Christians have never dominated the PLO, even if Christians have historically been overrepresented in Arab nationalist movements (not only Palestinian by the way).

No, "ruling" is the wrong exprssion.

If Israel was really ruling Gaza, then Zionists would have some responsibility for people who are living there, which is not the case.

The real term is "besiegement". There is a besiegement of Gaza by the Zionist regime.

Indeed, along with the Egyptian one if I may add.

[Buzz62]

Curious...
So are you saying that because Egypt also has Gaza closed off, that it's OK for Israel to do so as well?

[wat0n]

I'm saying that if Gaza is under a blockade it is because its government hasn't gotten along with its neighbors, not because of an Israeli whim. Israel is not the only relevant actor with regards to the blockade.

[Buzz62]

I'm saying that if Gaza is under a blockade it is because its government hasn't gotten along with its neighbors, not because of an Israeli whim. Israel is not the only relevant actor with regards to the blockade.

And that makes it what...OK?

You never ask the relevant questions.
WHY is Hamas in power in Gaza?
WHY are the people of Gaza so opposed to Israel?
WHY are they so dangerous to Israel?
WHAT happened to turn all these people to the desperate acts they perpetrate?
and finally
WHY are there so many Palestinians in such a tiny chunk of land?

You never address this, and without addressing the REASONS, no SOLUTION can be realistically implemented.

[wat0n]

And that makes it what...OK?

It makes it the lesser evil.

You never ask the relevant questions.
WHY is Hamas in power in Gaza?
WHY are the people of Gaza so opposed to Israel?
WHY are they so dangerous to Israel?
WHAT happened to turn all these people to the desperate acts they perpetrate?
and finally
WHY are there so many Palestinians in such a tiny chunk of land?

You never address this, and without addressing the REASONS, no SOLUTION can be realistically implemented.

I agree, no solution can be found if you don't address the reasons. So, why is Gaza under a joint Israeli-Egyptian blockade?

Hamas is in power simply because it is the strongest group there and imposes its rule by force. And that's it, pretty much - Gazans don't need to like Israel for them to be able to live with no blockade or a peace deal to be signed.

Neither Egyptians nor Jordanians tend to like Israel yet both countries have signed peace treaties and upheld them, refraining from violent actions against Israel so this is most certainly not about public opinion.

Oh, and I've addressed your questions several times over but it is you who is incapable of addressing mine

[Buzz62]

It makes it the lesser evil.

The lesser evil...

I agree, no solution can be found if you don't address the reasons. So, why is Gaza under a joint Israeli-Egyptian blockade?

Hamas is in power simply because it is the strongest group there and imposes its rule by force. And that's it, pretty much - Gazans don't need to like Israel for them to be able to live with no blockade or a peace deal to be signed.

Neither Egyptians nor Jordanians tend to like Israel yet both countries have signed peace treaties and upheld them, refraining from violent actions against Israel so this is most certainly not about public opinion.

Oh, and I've addressed your questions several times over but it is you who is incapable of addressing mine

Obviously the blockade is in place in order to prevent the people of Gaza from perpetrating more violent acts.
But what made the blockade necessary?
WHY the fear of more violent acts?
Hamas is in power because there are millions of Gazans crammed into a tiny city/state as a result of...Zionism and the occupation of the West Bank. All those angry people who just wanna go home...but cannot.
THAT'S why Hamas is in power in Gaza...wat0n.
And if you think those treaties with Egypt and Jordan are worth the paper they're printed on...I must ask you..."what colour is your sky wat0n?" The minute the USA declares they no longer support Israel with its military...guess who's coming to dinner?

Finally...what questions? All I ever see is re-direction and excuses...

[wat0n]

The lesser evil...

Sad, but probably better than a direct Israeli takeover and 1 or 2 years of house-by-house fighting to destroy tunnels and the like.

Some people act as if the current status of the conflict is the worst thing that could happen. But it's wrong, things can always get worse.

Obviously the blockade is in place in order to prevent the people of Gaza from perpetrating more violent acts.
But what made the blockade necessary?
WHY the fear of more violent acts?
Hamas is in power because there are millions of Gazans crammed into a tiny city/state as a result of...Zionism and the occupation of the West Bank. All those angry people who just wanna go home...but cannot.
THAT'S why Hamas is in power in Gaza...wat0n.

Is it? According to the latest polls, more Gazans would vote for Fatah than for Hamas if Parliamentary elections had been held last week. Hamas doesn't seem to get a clear support from those millions of refugees in Gaza.

And if you think those treaties with Egypt and Jordan are worth the paper they're printed on...I must ask you..."what colour is your sky wat0n?" The minute the USA declares they no longer support Israel with its military...guess who's coming to dinner?

Finally...what questions? All I ever see is re-direction and excuses...

I don't think the US is necessary for the treaties to hold right now. Israel right now has common interests with both Egypt and Jordan, along with other Arab Sunni regimes.

Speaking of Jordan, it also has millions of Palestinian refugees, arguably they are even the majority of the population, though that didn't prevent it from reaching a deal with the Israelis.

At last, I would even seriously question whether Palestinian refugees even want to move to Israel or not under a peace treaty, or if the issue has become something of a symbolic or potential return.

[Buzz62]

Sad, but probably better than a direct Israeli takeover and 1 or 2 years of house-by-house fighting to destroy tunnels and the like.

Some people act as if the current status of the conflict is the worst thing that could happen. But it's wrong, things can always get worse.

Well...I've said it before and I'll say it again...
Why doesn't Israel just get it over with the blow all the residents of the Gaza Strip to Kingdom Come?
Could it be that perhaps they enjoy watching the suffering?

Things could get worse? I suppose they could. Would that be pleasing to you and the Zionists?
I'd have to imagine Netan-Yahoo would simply be in ecstasy.

Is it? According to the latest polls, more Gazans would vote for Fatah than for Hamas if Parliamentary elections had been held last week. Hamas doesn't seem to get a clear support from those millions of refugees in Gaza.

I told you the reason for Hamas being in power in Gaza.
Quit dancing around the issue. Face it head-on like a man...not a Zionist.

I don't think the US is necessary for the treaties to hold right now. Israel right now has common interests with both Egypt and Jordan, along with other Arab Sunni regimes.

Speaking of Jordan, it also has millions of Palestinian refugees, arguably they are even the majority of the population, though that didn't prevent it from reaching a deal with the Israelis.

At last, I would even seriously question whether Palestinian refugees even want to move to Israel or not under a peace treaty, or if the issue has become something of a symbolic or potential return.

Oh you would question that would you...How nice for you.

Israel exists with a big fat target on its back.
A target the Zionists placed there and will never remove, as it justifies their mean-spirited and frankly...disgusting policies.

wat0n...you may continue to make excuses and thin arguments, that's fine.
But always remember...
Carma Is A BITCH!
And eventually wat0n...she's gonna pay the Zionists of Israel a little visit.
Ya...enjoy that...

[wat0n]

Well...I've said it before and I'll say it again...
Why doesn't Israel just get it over with the blow all the residents of the Gaza Strip to Kingdom Come?
Could it be that perhaps they enjoy watching the suffering?

Things could get worse? I suppose they could. Would that be pleasing to you and the Zionists?
I'd have to imagine Netan-Yahoo would simply be in ecstasy.

Enjoy the suffering? Your proposal entails way more suffering for Gazans and Israelis alike than the current state of affairs.

I told you the reason for Hamas being in power in Gaza.
Quit dancing around the issue. Face it head-on like a man...not a Zionist.

How do you explain that Fatah would get more votes than Hamas in Gaza if an election was held now?

Maybe you need to man up now that your narrative was deconstructed by virtue of objective facts stated by a Palestinian survey

Oh you would question that would you...How nice for you.

Israel exists with a big fat target on its back.
A target the Zionists placed there and will never remove, as it justifies their mean-spirited and frankly...disgusting policies.

wat0n...you may continue to make excuses and thin arguments, that's fine.
But always remember...
Carma Is A BITCH!
And eventually wat0n...she's gonna pay the Zionists of Israel a little visit.
Ya...enjoy that...

It's written "Karma" and you quite obviously cannot account for the facts I mentioned. It is you who needs a reality check, not me, right now Israel's neighbors have higher priorities than squabbling with Israel.

[Buzz62]

Enjoy the suffering? Your proposal entails way more suffering for Gazans and Israelis alike than the current state of affairs.

Dead people don't suffer.

How do you explain that Fatah would get more votes than Hamas in Gaza if an election was held now?

Maybe you need to man up now that your narrative was deconstructed by virtue of objective facts stated by a Palestinian survey

wat0n...would Hamas even exist were it not for Zionist Israel?
Comon wat0n...wake up.

It's written "Karma" and you quite obviously cannot account for the facts I mentioned. It is you who needs a reality check, not me, right now Israel's neighbors have higher priorities than squabbling with Israel.

lol
Does that give you a warm and fuzzy feeling to know your mortal enemies are distracted at the moment?

[wat0n]

Dead people don't suffer.

wat0n...would Hamas even exist were it not for Zionist Israel?
Comon wat0n...wake up.

It probably would - it represents more than just opposition to Israel as it is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Part of the problem is that people forget that dealing with Israel is not the only issue Palestinians face. The role of religion in society, for instance, is another contentious issue among Palestinians and elsewhere in the region - including Israel - and beyond. You seriously don't think that Palestinians are not immune to regional and global trends, right?

[Buzz62]

It probably would - it represents more than just opposition to Israel as it is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Part of the problem is that people forget that dealing with Israel is not the only issue Palestinians face. The role of religion in society, for instance, is another contentious issue among Palestinians and elsewhere in the region - including Israel - and beyond. You seriously don't think that Palestinians are not immune to regional and global trends, right?

WOW...well what can one say to this except perhaps...
"Psst...hey Bud. Wanna buy a bridge?"

[wat0n]

So, again, you have no answer to provide to yet another fact.

Why is it that I'm not surprised at all?