[annatar1914]

@ingliz , @Godstud , @Tainari88 , @Potemkin , @Verv and @Political Interest :

So I mentioned sterile Money as having a kind of identity, and I'll go even further and say an identity that merges with the power that has the "right" to create it

In the beginning was the State. Money bears the image of the personalized State as the bearer of all Sovereign power in a territory.

The Beast and the Image of the Beast.

Christ's exchange in the very Temple of God with questioners who bore coins with the idolatrous image of Caesar into the sacred precincts of the Holy Place itself. Holy because Holiness Himself was there in His ineffably muted Glory.

" Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and unto God the things that are God's", said He.

Well, to God everything is to rightfully be rendered first and foremost. Caesar gets what is his due which is the Money his power creates. Get it from him? Well , give it back.

Everyone really knows what Christ really is saying, to this very day in our hearts. But we're addicts: how can we live without Money in a Civilization? That would mean the end of Civilization.....It's easier to think of living without Our Creator God than the lifeless Idol that has only the power that we personally give it!

No Money, no State, no Civilization.

Barbarism, Barbarian thinking. An " Atilla" who has the " sword of God" drives it like a stake through the vampires heart.

So the Sword has more power than Money?

We could live on and with mutual Love and not Money? Love Himself bears the Sword.

The Sword, which denied our return to Paradise, and still does? Holy is the Sword which brings division! He said Himself that He brought the Sword and not " peace".

Ssh... Don't let the people know that!

This then is the power of the West, of Modernity, that in truth IS Civilization. They're not lying when they think and believe that, that much is very true. Money, the State. It's singularly One. The root of Sin, of Egoism.

[annatar1914]

@Godstud , @Potemkin , @Verv , @Political Interest :

Two ways to look at Time are the linear and the eternal. But there is the third in which the eternal breaks through the linear, and thus then we have the apocalyptic, eschatological. This of course is the almost unsaid theme of the entire thread, appropriate to this subforum on PoFo.

The Jewish return to the Holy Land, and their formation of a Nation State of " Israel", is believed by many to be one of those apocalyptic events that occasionally break through the surface of mundane time.

I myself have always been dismissive of attaching any eschatological or merely teleological meaning to Israel's founding, perhaps in reaction to popular Western beliefs at a certain point in history. Even recently I voiced the opinion that Israel was more likely to end in a whimper not a bang.

But I'm not comfortable with my discomfort. Emotion is not a sufficient reason at all for accepting or rejection of something, although I do often trust my gut on matters.

So, it's not nothing that the Jews have returned to the Holy Land, in fact it is a sign of a closer point towards the end according to the Fathers of my Orthodox Faith.

It's at this point though that it almost shuts down rational political discussion, as almost every religious belief system has a framework involving End Times belief. But Israel itself is a sign that defies political ratiocinations. I suspect that the time will come in which events will falsify or appear to falsify all manner of prophecies, or fulfill them. This leaves rational political discussion in the peculiar position of lagging behind the understanding of what turns out to be prophetic events as they happen.

An incredible thing for me to admit to after over 80 pages of talk here, on a spirituality thread. Unless I have been describing the End Times all along whether consciously or willingly or not.

Does this make me some sort of " Christian Zionist", along with so many others of certain sects? Not really. But they do have their errors hanging on one truth: that in the Christian New Testament, St Paul does prophecy in the Book of Romans that the Jews will be converted collectively speaking towards the End.

And so this triggers the Muslim understanding of a set of their own Islamic prophesies, with their own consequences.

@Potemkin , @Godstud , @Verv , and @Political Interest :

" I am not comfortable with my discomfort" .

Long ago I decided that I'd never leave well enough alone, when it came to wrestling with the truth. I'll say something, and then find myself sometime later committed to another position. But gradually, I build up some foundation around which my mental universe turns.

It's not good to be moved to and fro by the enthusiasms and passions on issues which require humility and patience to prayerfully consider before weighing in on a subject. I try to be that way, I don't often succeed in my opinion.

I said it here myself: the return of the Jews to the Holy Land in 1948 is the biggest event in human history since their expulsion from that same land almost 2000 years ago.

It is Proof.

Now, by most Jewish religious standards I'd be regarded as an anti Semite by many.

But that same Jew is a cousin to or descendant of the Saints of the Old Covenant Church. Cousin to Jesus Christ Himself and His Mother the Blessed Virgin Mary the Mother of God. Even if that same blood relative denies everything I just affirmed. But then, they've always been their own worst enemy.

They came back though. Nobody said that they came back right in mind and soul, in truth or justice, but they came back as predicted.

What do we do with this, what do we learn, aside from what the Fathers and St Paul said of this ( which honestly is enough for a good man unlike myself) ?

The Apostle says that they'll convert ( my interpretation: to Orthodox Christianity) and that it'll be like life back from the dead. Scripture also seems to point to a time when the nations are collectively speaking no longer graced with the enlightenment of the truth.

We would seem then to be at a point at which most non Jews are by no means Orthodox Christian, and yet almost no Orthodox Christians are from Jewish/Israelite origins either.

I don't have to imagine what this reflection would mean to a Muslim say, well versed in their own eschatology, the Koran and the Hadiths.

The West as it is now will not survive. Neither will the Far East go unchanged.

Edit:

So they're not going anywhere, the Jews, and Islam is contrarily designed as such to not accept that as an indefinite possibility. Christianity while repelled by the antichristian aspects of Judaism still maintains the same basic set of Scriptures with the Jews and thus in a broad sense follows the same Old Testament narrative in a way that is impossible for Islam. Jews are waiting for the Messiah, Christians say that He has already come, and will return. Muslims say Jesus was a Muslim prophet before Muhammad who was not crucified nor died, but Allah tricked the Jews and ascended Jesus into heaven. And that at the End Times will come back to support the Imam Mahdi and all the Christians and Jews will become Muslims or be killed. That this Muslim duo will kill the " Dajjal al Mastih" or "lying Christ", who will claim to be Jesus and God and be embraced by Christians and Jews

So there's no room for common ground, in actuality, between Islam versus the Jews and also a Jewish Sect ( from the Islamic perspective).

So as all-too-human as Jews can be, aside from cultural or political or theological critiques of them the real hatred against them is something supernatural, something that is somehow both less-then-human and more-than-human, demonic.

[annatar1914]

@Godstud , @Potemkin , @Verv , @Political Interest :

Orthodox Christianity is an Jewish Sect, from certain perspectives. The True Jewish Religion by It's own definition, but still Jewish for all that, and to be lumped in with the rest by It's enemies despite what other sectarians from different Jewish groups might think or say.

These religious sectarians decided to join the war because they think that it's existential:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ultra-orthod ... 17189.html

It's began one way, the war, but I believe that it's turning another.

I remember a few years ago talking to some Israeli people one day, and talking politics one said to me:

" no worries, Russia is Israel, and Israel is Russia"'

So I'm not going to be concerned. This is the same war, but Russia and Israel, and Serbia too, are on the same side even if in a mysterious and even supernatural way. I don't have to approve of everything done but this is the way I see it. The real enemies of one are the real enemies of the other.

So yes in a qualified sense I am on Israeli side, just as Arameans, Druze, Bedouins might envision it. The actions of the Israeli authority in the land being like that of Caiphas when he said that it was expedient that One Man die for the sake of the nation.

[annatar1914]

@Godstud , @Potemkin ,
@Verv ,
@Political Interest :

What real moral advantage does modern almost clinical detachment when killing, at some remove from targets, have over up close and personal killing with a fervent enthusiasm? And only talking about an assumption of right when doing it, to make it a little simpler.

We are told that premodern times were " cruel" in comparison to modern times, with their grim punishments such as beheading and impalement. Is this so?

Modern times are crueler in their own ways.

So when I (who call myself a premodern in sensibility and studied intent) blanch at the horror of families crushed under rubble caused by bombs, yet feel a kind of residual shame at the more direct approach, what am I to think or feel?

It kind of skewers today's concept of the Political: I don't understand it anymore, or maybe a bit too much. Everything is personal, or personalist, to me.

I used to work almost 20 years in hospice and home health, institutions, nursing homes and hospitals. After that I was in sales and marketing, or property management. I've seen the vast divide between alleged objective rational distance between people, and the reality which is much more visceral. Sometimes literally.

I'm just not very civilized enough to understand all these fine distinctions people make today, and less willing to judge too harshly our " unenlightened" and " cruel" ancestors. I used to be able to, but have become rather stupid I suppose.

[Tainari88]

@Godstud , @Potemkin ,
@Verv ,
@Political Interest :

What real moral advantage does modern almost clinical detachment when killing, at some remove from targets, have over up close and personal killing with a fervent enthusiasm? And only talking about an assumption of right when doing it, to make it a little simpler.

We are told that premodern times were " cruel" in comparison to modern times, with their grim punishments such as beheading and impalement. Is this so?

Modern times are crueler in their own ways.

So when I (who call myself a premodern in sensibility and studied intent) blanch at the horror of families crushed under rubble caused by bombs, yet feel a kind of residual shame at the more direct approach, what am I to think or feel?

It kind of skewers today's concept of the Political: I don't understand it anymore, or maybe a bit too much. Everything is personal, or personalist, to me.

I used to work almost 20 years in hospice and home health, institutions, nursing homes and hospitals. After that I was in sales and marketing, or property management. I've seen the vast divide between alleged objective rational distance between people, and the reality which is much more visceral. Sometimes literally.

I'm just not very civilized enough to understand all these fine distinctions people make today, and less willing to judge too harshly our " unenlightened" and " cruel" ancestors. I used to be able to, but have become rather stupid I suppose.

Annatar often the people who tend to do us the most harm are not strangers. But people known to us who have gained our trust and confidence and whom we see as part of ourselves. If we find out that they do not give a shit about us, after knowing us and interacting with us? That is way more harmful for our own emotional states than the strangers who through just lack of consideration do us harm.

Malicious deliberate intent to do harm that is planned is far more sinister than some passion in the moment blowup that caused harm. That is why the law often is much harsher on people convicted of premeditated murder.

I think in the past how societies dealt with delinquency or transgressions often had to do with the conditions of those societies. For example, if the grain storage is low and people are rationing bread in some ancient society? The thief that goes to the granary and steals it, for himself and denies the need of many others? Will be punished a lot harder than those who in good times and in times of plenty eat an extra loaf of bread that is lying around and being consumed.

In a desert water is highly valued. It is not valued as much in some tropical island in the Caribbean with a lot of water available all the time--like my nation.

The conditions dictate rules often.

[annatar1914]

Annatar often the people who tend to do us the most harm are not strangers. But people known to us who have gained our trust and confidence and whom we see as part of ourselves. If we find out that they do not give a shit about us, after knowing us and interacting with us? That is way more harmful for our own emotional states than the strangers who through just lack of consideration do us harm.

Malicious deliberate intent to do harm that is planned is far more sinister than some passion in the moment blowup that caused harm. That is why the law often is much harsher on people convicted of premeditated murder.

I think in the past how societies dealt with delinquency or transgressions often had to do with the conditions of those societies. For example, if the grain storage is low and people are rationing bread in some ancient society? The thief that goes to the granary and steals it, for himself and denies the need of many others? Will be punished a lot harder than those who in good times and in times of plenty eat an extra loaf of bread that is lying around and being consumed.

In a desert water is highly valued. It is not valued as much in some tropical island in the Caribbean with a lot of water available all the time--like my nation.

The conditions dictate rules often.

@Tainari88 :

What you're saying reminds me of a paradox Joseph de Maistre wrote about, how a soldier who goes to war and kills dozens of people is regarded not only as an innocent, but even a hero. If he does anything criminal while at war, for most of human history it was forgotten. Some circumstances, it still is.

While an executioner, who ends the life of some rapists and murderers and bandits, is almost universally regarded with loathing and horror by all, myself included I might add. Even people who like capital punishment steer clear of him.

In today's world, maybe things aren't clear enough to make that such a sharp contrast in weirdness, the " why?" of that paradox.

Part of it may be that a soldier doesn't necessarily have to end another soldier's life even in combat situations, while an executioner will certainly be ending a life every time he shows up to work.

So you are right about the differing circumstances.

I will note also that those very same countries who are having the most qualms about execution of condemned rapists and murderers and the like, or even ended or all but ended the death penalty, have few qualms about drone strikes on wedding parties and so forth.

Why? I suggest that in the liberal modern era, we don't like the idea of the guilty suffering for what they do because it reminds us that most people have something to be guilty about.

But when the innocent or relatively innocent suffer, looking on we can wring our hands and maintain a self righteous attitude in the public sphere, safe from scrutiny.

Mind you, I am also aware of the distinction between a sin and a crime, while seeing that there's an overlap.

[annatar1914]

@Godstud , @Potemkin , @Verv , @Political Interest :

Netanyahu called the Palestinians, or at very least the Hamas people in Gaza, " Amelek".

And this is important because it marks the division between Israel as Western colony in every way, and Israel the Magian Jewish culture that arose from the Middle East and now has revived in fertile soil after so many centuries.

Related in every way to what I've been writing past few pages of this thread. Israeli response is not cold clinical action of the liberal modern West, but of st Joshua, st David, the Macabees and all the Saints of the Old Testament, which is One with the New Testament. Not that the Israelis are of that type necessarily, but that is their claim right or wrong.

There is a Divine morality that is not philosophical morality, but is closer ( not identical)to the Pagan and Premodern Virtue, Honor, Glory, Shame.

Plato wrote of the Socratic dialogue where the question was asked: are the gods good because they determine the good, or do they follow a standard independent of them? Well God being God, there is no standard independent of Him. His commandments are all Holy, all Good, because they come from Who He is.

But back to Israel. They aren't really Israel, but they'll be grafted back onto the Israel of God. This then is in a mysterious way, the preparatory period.

Islamic doctrine speaks of killing all the Jews, Jewish doctrine speaks of exterminating Amalek, and of Amelek being various peoples throughout history.

This is another one of those -historical moments, October 7th 2023, to be linked with February 22nd 2022 over time as a break from the West, Jews and Russians.

But Adolf Hitler always tied it up together best:

[Tainari88]

@Tainari88 :

What you're saying reminds me of a paradox Joseph de Maistre wrote about, how a soldier who goes to war and kills dozens of people is regarded not only as an innocent, but even a hero. If he does anything criminal while at war, for most of human history it was forgotten. Some circumstances, it still is.

While an executioner, who ends the life of some rapists and murderers and bandits, is almost universally regarded with loathing and horror by all, myself included I might add. Even people who like capital punishment steer clear of him.

In today's world, maybe things aren't clear enough to make that such a sharp contrast in weirdness, the " why?" of that paradox.

Part of it may be that a soldier doesn't necessarily have to end another soldier's life even in combat situations, while an executioner will certainly be ending a life every time he shows up to work.

So you are right about the differing circumstances.

I will note also that those very same countries who are having the most qualms about execution of condemned rapists and murderers and the like, or even ended or all but ended the death penalty, have few qualms about drone strikes on wedding parties and so forth.

Why? I suggest that in the liberal modern era, we don't like the idea of the guilty suffering for what they do because it reminds us that most people have something to be guilty about.

But when the innocent or relatively innocent suffer, looking on we can wring our hands and maintain a self righteous attitude in the public sphere, safe from scrutiny.

Mind you, I am also aware of the distinction between a sin and a crime, while seeing that there's an overlap.

Human beings are interesting with their internal and external contradictions.

There is always something we can say we are ashamed of that we have committed.

I think the important factor is our awareness of that mistake or sin or shame. Why are we ashamed and why is it shameful?

I remember when I was five years old I wanted a doll. My father said it was too expensive. So he said put it back. I did not understand then the concept of money and or stealing money. I just thought that money was something adults had and it was plentiful and it was a little piece of paper of no significance to an adult than the paper towels my mother threw away.

So I went and picked up the money I saw on the kitchen table under a napkin holder and went and bought the doll with it.

I went home. My father asked my mother where the money was? I said, 'I used it to buy my doll.' And my father sat me down and explained first what money was. Then he explained why I was wrong to take it. He said, money is how people who work get their work acknowledged. He explained a task I did at home. Washing dishes. If I washed dishes for hours and hours until my feet hurt and then someone gave me that paper for it? My work had to be valued with the paper.

If the doll was too expensive it meant that some adult had to work too many hours for it to be worth the time. I was taking time away from a person's labor. I finally understood it. And then I disobeyed my father. He was not happy. I felt such shame!! I wanted to please him and for him to be proud of me. And he felt ashamed of my behavior. I was guilty.

I think those kind of moments happen with children Annatar. They are teaching moments. And also moments to help develop good choices in developing personalities and people.

[annatar1914]

Human beings are interesting with their internal and external contradictions.

There is always something we can say we are ashamed of that we have committed.

I think the important factor is our awareness of that mistake or sin or shame. Why are we ashamed and why is it shameful?

I remember when I was five years old I wanted a doll. My father said it was too expensive. So he said put it back. I did not understand then the concept of money and or stealing money. I just thought that money was something adults had and it was plentiful and it was a little piece of paper of no significance to an adult than the paper towels my mother threw away.

So I went and picked up the money I saw on the kitchen table under a napkin holder and went and bought the doll with it.

I went home. My father asked my mother where the money was? I said, 'I used it to buy my doll.' And my father sat me down and explained first what money was. Then he explained why I was wrong to take it. He said, money is how people who work get their work acknowledged. He explained a task I did at home. Washing dishes. If I washed dishes for hours and hours until my feet hurt and then someone gave me that paper for it? My work had to be valued with the paper.

If the doll was too expensive it meant that some adult had to work too many hours for it to be worth the time. I was taking time away from a person's labor. I finally understood it. And then I disobeyed my father. He was not happy. I felt such shame!! I wanted to please him and for him to be proud of me. And he felt ashamed of my behavior. I was guilty.

I think those kind of moments happen with children Annatar. They are teaching moments. And also moments to help develop good choices in developing personalities and people.

@Tainari88 :

Among other things, this is a testing ground I think. A choice between " thy will be done" and " my will be done", for each person each time unique.

[Tainari88]

@Tainari88 :

Among other things, this is a testing ground I think. A choice between " thy will be done" and " my will be done", for each person each time unique.

It is hard to try to define conscience or a level of conscience in an individual or in a nation.

How does one go about trying to figure out why certain individuals cling to their principles and live very closely their value systems? And others are opportunists, career criminals and often just do not care about hurting or harming other people.

It is interesting. How some people truly think there are no consequences for their actions.

I often think if we truly are in charge of our destinies or if we are just leaves tossed by the winds of fate and never know where we will end up or land.

Have you ever wondered what has brought you to Oklahoma or I to some specific place?

I remember telling my mother, just choose a place you want to go and visit and we will go there? And she chose this city I live in. I wonder why this city and not some other city? That I wound up here many years after she died is interesting. I feel it was destiny. Something beyond my will.

Have you ever felt that way Annatar1914?

[annatar1914]

It is hard to try to define conscience or a level of conscience in an individual or in a nation.

How does one go about trying to figure out why certain individuals cling to their principles and live very closely their value systems? And others are opportunists, career criminals and often just do not care about hurting or harming other people.

It is interesting. How some people truly think there are no consequences for their actions.

I often think if we truly are in charge of our destinies or if we are just leaves tossed by the winds of fate and never know where we will end up or land.

Have you ever wondered what has brought you to Oklahoma or I to some specific place?

I remember telling my mother, just choose a place you want to go and visit and we will go there? And she chose this city I live in. I wonder why this city and not some other city? That I wound up here many years after she died is interesting. I feel it was destiny. Something beyond my will.

Have you ever felt that way Annatar1914?

@Tainari88 :

I have had my share of adventures, but two lands I call home. It isn't easy. But I didn't seek ease.

Putting it in philosophy terms, I am a compatibilist:

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/

Theologically I'm an Augustinian, there's still fans of the African Church Father among Orthodox Christians.

Fairly deterministic, but knowing that what we will, that thought we are impelled to will freely. Or rather, we are moved to desire what we are moved to will. Free will is not absolute except in God, in creatures it is simply the absence of restraint.

[annatar1914]

@Potemkin , @Verv , @Political Interest :

It occurred to me that I've been reading the Books of the Macabees a lot lately. These wars and persecution of faithful Jews were not only by the Selucid dynasty of Alexander's successors, but by lapsed Jews that history records as being " Hellenist", as adopting the Greco Roman Civilization iteration of the West.

Today the persecuted and warred against are the non Jews of the Holy Land, closer to the traditional life and morality of the Jews of Maccabean times, while most Israeli Jews are, well, alright with this:

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/politic ... cle-772139

And so are more like the " Hellenists" of Maccabean times. It's most interesting to me.

[annatar1914]

@Godstud , @Potemkin , @Verv , @Political Interest :

Principles of Sound, and sound principles, it's related:

Icons in Sound, and Icons in dimensional form

After all: " In the Beginning was the WORD", and that Word was SPOKEN.

[Potemkin]

@Godstud , @Potemkin , @Verv , @Political Interest :

Principles of Sound, and sound principles, it's related:

Icons in Sound, and Icons in dimensional form

After all: " In the Beginning was the WORD", and that Word was SPOKEN.

Indeed, and God created the Cosmos by speaking it into existence. “Fiat lux!” And in the Bible, God can be heard but never seen directly. To look upon the face of God is death. Even Moses only ever encountered God as a divine Voice, speaking out of a burning bush. This relates to the shaping of the world which human language performs, and which is the fundamental quality which separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. We speak the human world into existence, and our God of course must do the same thing, just on a bigger scale. God can be found in music and in the speech act, the Logos of reason. This is why we sing to God.

[annatar1914]

Indeed, and God created the Cosmos by speaking it into existence. “Fiat lux!” And in the Bible, God can be heard but never seen directly. To look upon the face of God is death. Even Moses only ever encountered God as a divine Voice, speaking out of a burning bush. This relates to the shaping of the world which human language performs, and which is the fundamental quality which separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. We speak the human world into existence, and our God of course must do the same thing, just on a bigger scale. God can be found in music and in the speech act, the Logos of reason. This is why we sing to God.

@Potemkin, and by extension @Verv and @Political Interest :

Very insightful my friend!

Creation Ex Nihilo is a Hallmark which is first recorded in the resistance literature of the Bible, the Books of the Macabees which I've been focused on:

"I beseech you, my child, to look at the heaven and the earth and see everything that is in them, and recognize that God did not make them out of things that existed"

2 Macabees 7:28

I probably need not remind anyone how revolutionary the idea is in contradiction to the Pagan and Premodern idea of an eternal material universe without real beginning or end...

There's a technique involving sound, I forget what it's called, but it forms geometric shapes from sound....

Edit:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics

The Cosmos as a Hologram made from Sound, a conceptual space in the Mind of God.

[annatar1914]

@Potemkin , @Godstud , @Verv , @Political Interest :

So I'm watching the confluence of BLM/Antifa/Islamist organizations on a street level:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1723 ... 00397.html

Where Western Civilization brings the Other in and engenders it's own antithetical opposition. It's most curious.

Whereas today also marks this anniversary:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_S ... Ugra_River

Where the opposite response happened, because it was the response of another civilization, also alien to the West to this day.

I suppose the difference lies in still believing to the point of life or death in what you're all about. People can't truly live believing in basically nothing.

So we have an anarchic and nihilistic " left" joining forces with the Muhammadans because in their gut they know that they too just want to pull it all down. All these people: if they aren't already Muslims, soon enough they will be. All of Western Civilization history suggests this trajectory, with the Papacy playing the role of Landulph of Capua:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landulf_II_of_Capua

Or some other traitors to Orthodoxy.

And nothing else the Popes did might not amount to anything whatsoever, but to midwife the coming of the Islamic Caliphate on the ruins of all the Roman Empire, and then some.

People fight the wars that they can fight, and so the West drifts to the conflict in the Middle East.

Boundaries exist after all, even after all the projects of the Western elite to erase them.

[annatar1914]

@Potemkin , @Godstud , @Verv , @Political Interest :

So I'm watching the confluence of BLM/Antifa/Islamist organizations on a street level:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1723 ... 00397.html

Where Western Civilization brings the Other in and engenders it's own antithetical opposition. It's most curious.

Whereas today also marks this anniversary:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_S ... Ugra_River

Where the opposite response happened, because it was the response of another civilization, also alien to the West to this day.

I suppose the difference lies in still believing to the point of life or death in what you're all about. People can't truly live believing in basically nothing.

So we have an anarchic and nihilistic " left" joining forces with the Muhammadans because in their gut they know that they too just want to pull it all down. All these people: if they aren't already Muslims, soon enough they will be. All of Western Civilization history suggests this trajectory, with the Papacy playing the role of Landulph of Capua:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landulf_II_of_Capua

Or some other traitors to Orthodoxy.

And nothing else the Popes did might not amount to anything whatsoever, but to midwife the coming of the Islamic Caliphate on the ruins of all the Roman Empire, and then some.

People fight the wars that they can fight, and so the West drifts to the conflict in the Middle East.

Boundaries exist after all, even after all the projects of the Western elite to erase them.

@Potemkin , @Godstud , @Verv , and others of my readers and friends:

That same " confluence" that saw the triumph of Islam at the " leftist" protests for Hamas in New York, saw a " nice" summation to cap it all off with some Muslim cleric:

More of the same Devilry:



In Washington DC!

I will not follow the Lie. I will not follow Allah/Ba'al/Apollo/Lucifer-Satan. The Western Papists may now say and finally admit that they worship the same god as the Muslims do, and this is all too true, and why the West is dying now. But it is not the Faith of Christ.

I stand with the Christian Faith, with Holy Orthodox Russia, with those few who preserved the Holy Apostolic Doctrine like the " heavy water" was preserved for the lighting of the candles in the Temple of God.

Their war is a just war fought by sinners like me, but of whom I am the chief sinner of them all.

I stand with the Jews, who will someday see their true Christ in spite of their sins and rejection of Him now, and of their rejection of their Royal Cousin the Blessed Virgin Mary the Mother of God, fairest daughter of Israel and the Glory of her people Israel. Their dreadful exile has been ended, even as they are unbelieving, and this is proof of God Himself.

Their war is a just war fought by sinners like me, but of whom I am the worst, their chief

I reject the blatant Blasphemy of the rejection of the Trinitarian and Incarnational Dogmas, written in the Holy Place where the Temple of God stood.

But rather:

There it is, I said it, as unworthy as I am to have done so

[Godstud]

Yes, the Immoral Majority seem to be backing the terrorists who call for the death of Israel and all Jews. No surprises there. Virtue signalling for murderers.

[annatar1914]

Yes, the Immoral Majority seem to be backing the terrorists who call for the death of Israel and all Jews. No surprises there. Virtue signalling for murderers.

@Godstud :

Indeed, well said. And one interesting thing is exactly that, that there are no surprises.

[Godstud]

Well, @annatar1914, when you have the same people who are involved in the indoctrination and grooming of children into their ideology, and to de-stigmatize pedophiles, it's a small step to go towards anti-semitism.