[Hong Wu]

I can propose three reasons for why religion is better than psychiatry. The first two are simple and, by modern standards, vulgar and unfair. The third one is complicated and will take the most time to explain so I have put it last.

The first reason is that I believe transcendence, enlightenment, the “killing of the self” are all real things and this obviously makes religion better. Deal with it (and keep reading).

The second reason is that many people who are on psychiatric medications kill themselves. While this could easily be presented as an unfair argument (and maybe it is unfair) it is also true that people who are "on religion" are less likely to kill themselves.

Now we get to the third reason. I want to discuss what psychiatry or psychology do for a person and what religion does for a person, other than helping them achieve spiritual transcendence.

Religion undeniably gives a person good things, mentally. In my experience, the best way to deal with a bad thing is to find a corresponding good thing that countervails the bad thing. Religion does this. Psychiatry does not do this effectively. Much of psychiatry and psychology tries to “deflate” bad things and make them seem less bad. While this is sometimes effective it is also a cop-out when a thing happens or happened that really was genuinely bad.
Now we can move onto the good things psychiatry provides. It provides three good things: (1) happy pills; (2) the idea that someone should engage in “positive thinking”; (3) the goal of achieving “self actualization.”

Regarding (1) the happy pills: these things are addictive and are associated with suicide. No one kills themselves because they were told to think positively or because someone tried to downplay a bad thing that happened to them. But the pills are expensive and probably also dangerous.

Regarding (2) positive thinking: I personally found this to be a vacuous and stupid exercise. People may be hardwired in terms of how, when and to what degree they will think positively about something. If someone views adversity as a challenge from God then this arms them with a constructive and critical mentality. Thinking positive is nothing more than encouraging people to characterize things in a certain way. This (as a mental strategy) does not get someone very far if the thing they are dealing with is bad no matter how you characterize it.

Regarding (3) self actualization: this is the most interesting one. It’s apparently a pseudo-scientific idea that presents a dumbed down form of spiritual transcendence or enlightenment. We try to find our “real self” and then “actualize” it, whatever that means. The problem with the idea is not just that it is vague. It begs another question: how are we to find our “real self” if we are on mind-altering medications? Wouldn’t that by definition make finding our real self impossible?

I could keep on going but it’s getting late. Basically, religion is better than psychiatry. It’s not addictive, it’s not expensive, it’s not vacuous like “positive thinking” or vague-to-impossible like seeking “self actualization”. It's heavily contextualized, nuanced, free and often successful.

[kobe]

I don't disagree that personal spirituality can eventually replace the need for psychiatric evaluation and therapy. I disagree with the premise that these cannot work in conjunction with each other. I furthermore disagree with this assumption:

Regarding (1) the happy pills: these things are addictive and are associated with suicide. No one kills themselves because they were told to think positively or because someone tried to downplay a bad thing that happened to them. But the pills are expensive and probably also dangerous.

I disagree with this assumption that "happy pills" will lead people to suicide. In fact, there is an increased risk of suicidal thoughts when taking antidepressants (according to Harvard University, from 1-2% to 2-4% in clinical trials). However, for many suffering from depression these antidepressants may be the last resort. Suicidal ideation is usually the result of an underlying chemical imbalance rather than a faulty ideology or belief system.

It is true that religion can help people who are depressed, especially if it's the result of drinking or other forms of addiction.

Suicide. The risk that antidepressants will incite violent or self-destructive actions is the subject of renewed controversy. Suicidal thoughts (although no suicides) in patients taking SSRIs were first reported in 1990, shortly after the drugs were introduced. An FDA committee rejected the association, and most mental health professionals accepted that conclusion. But the issue was never completely settled.

One reason for concern is the increasing number of children and adolescents receiving prescriptions for antidepressants. An analysis of clinical trials in patients under age 18 found that SSRIs raised the risk of suicidal thinking when compared with a placebo. Many studies have followed, and although results vary, there is a consistent trend. When compared with a placebo, all antidepressants, including SSRIs, seem to double the risk of suicidal thinking, from 1%–2% to 2%–4%, in both children and adults.

In October 2004, after much hesitation and pressure from parents and Congress, the FDA issued a Black Box Warning for physicians and pharmacists — its strongest available measure short of withdrawing a drug from the market. The warning is placed on package inserts for all antidepressants in common use. It mentions the risk of suicidal thoughts, hostility, and agitation in both children and adults, specifically citing statistical analyses of clinical trials. The FDA has also issued a public advisory to parents, physicians, and pharmacists, and it will develop an information guide to be distributed with each new prescription.

Professional organizations are also acting. The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry has established a committee to monitor controlled trials, set standards, and promulgate guidelines for the use of drugs in children. The Academy will also work with the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) to publish a review of these issues and a guide for investigators. The American Medical Association is preparing an independent review of the evidence on risks and benefits of antidepressants.

Self-destructive feelings and thoughts in patients taking SSRIs may be the result of anxiety or akathisia. Sometimes a person with hidden bipolar disorder receives an antidepressant and develops an irritable manic reaction. Some patients may recover their energy and therefore their ability to act before mood improves or hope returns. The danger is greatest in the first few weeks of treatment. If a patient begins to have suicidal thoughts after many months on an antidepressant, the drug is probably not to blame. It’s more likely to be caused by the underlying illness.

A bad outcome can be avoided by regular follow-up and close monitoring. Patients should be warned that there is a slight chance they will feel worse for a while, and they should let their prescribing clinicians know immediately if they begin to feel worse or develop new symptoms, especially after changing the medication or the dose.

[Piccolo]

I agree. The greatest benefit of religion is that it can force a person to accept something larger and more powerful than their own self and the material world. I can see how becoming "dead to the world" in the sense that you believe in some kind of supernatural reality can make you more resilient in the face of obstacles in life. For example, if you truly believe in a soul and in an afterlife where you will ultimately spend eternity, then the problems of life on Earth seem relatively minor in comparison.

In today's world where so many people are practical atheists, setbacks and problems become magnified because there is little belief in any reality outside of what we are physically experiencing at the moment.

[Cartertonian]

Much depends on which 'religion' you're talking about. Spirituality is an inate part of the self, it is merely expressed differently according to one's theological stance. Even atheists can be spiritual.

Most of the organised, monotheistic religions are no better than any human invention...for that's what they are. They are not 'the Word of God', they are 'the Word of Man', using the deity as the ultimate authority figure to enforce what is really secular, social policy.

As for 'psychiatry', I should declare and interest: I am both a psychiatric nurse and a sufferer of depression.

1. 'Happy Pills' should be, as previously noted, a last resort but unfortunately GPs/Doctors are under such pressure of expectation from patients that they prescribe even before the patient has received a formal mental health assessment. They should refer to specialist services and let us decide whether medication is indicated. Unfortunately (in the UK) mental health services are so woefully under-resourced that it can take months for a referred patient to actually get that mental health assessment, so again GPs/Doctors feel they need to do something in the interim.

Regarding (2) positive thinking: I personally found this to be a vacuous and stupid exercise. People may be hardwired in terms of how, when and to what degree they will think positively about something. If someone views adversity as a challenge from God then this arms them with a constructive and critical mentality. Thinking positive is nothing more than encouraging people to characterize things in a certain way. This (as a mental strategy) does not get someone very far if the thing they are dealing with is bad no matter how you characterize it.

What rubbish! Helping people to understand that they are indeed 'hard-wired' to respond in certain ways to certain stimuli is important, because that hard-wiring exists within the primitive part of the brain and the higher, sentient ('God-given' - if that floats your boat) part of the brain can alter, modify and contextualise that primitive instinct in a positive way. Also, theologically, 'adversity as a challenge from God' is at odds with Christian teaching at least.

Regarding (3) self actualization: this is the most interesting one. It’s apparently a pseudo-scientific idea that presents a dumbed down form of spiritual transcendence or enlightenment. We try to find our “real self” and then “actualize” it, whatever that means. The problem with the idea is not just that it is vague. It begs another question: how are we to find our “real self” if we are on mind-altering medications? Wouldn’t that by definition make finding our real self impossible?

Here you expose your complete lack of understanding. Self-actualisation is nothing more than making the most of what you've got and as an idea it's no more vague than 'spiritual transcendence or enlightenment'. Also, what you deride as 'mind-altering' medications are for the most part optimising brain function in order that neurotransmission can occur unimpeded, thus allowing the individual a clearer picture of their 'self', unless you are asserting that the 'self' altered by the psychiatric illness process is a truer representation?

[Hong Wu]

Thanks for your replies. If I had been writing for longer I would have said that there are surely times when mind-altering medications are warranted. I think they are over-prescribed though. As for whether the mentally ill self is a truer representation than the happy self, that would depend on whether the medications were properly prescribed or not. Overcoming depression can be a very empowering experience if/when it is possible. As someone who probably suffered from depression myself and overcome it by becoming a crazy God person, I think so at least.

[mikema63]

In the case of more serious mental disorders like schizophrenia religious preocupation is actually really normal. It's not so clear, as you make out, that religion necesarily helps people better than psychiatry.

There is an argument to be made that it can help at least a portion of those who are depressed, but that leaves a lot of mental dissorders that it doesnt.

[quetzalcoatl]

Serious mental disorders may have a strong physical brain dysfunction component. God helps those who help themselves: thus we understand that prayer alone is not a sufficient response to appendicitis. Nor can it be a sufficient response to serious mental illness.

[Syph]

The second reason is that many people who are on psychiatric medications kill themselves. While this could easily be presented as an unfair argument (and maybe it is unfair) it is also true that people who are "on religion" are less likely to kill themselves.

This is compete rubbish aside from the slight increase in suicidal ideation that takes place immediately after commencing antidepressants. Suicide is vastly far common in the mentally ill than the mentally well.

People hooked on too much "religion" are far more likely to commit violence on other people than kill themselves. It's one of the few forces on Earth that can make otherwise good people do horrific things.

Religion undeniably gives a person good things, mentally.

Rubbish, the thought police aspects of Abrahamic religions alongside such horrifying concepts as original sin and hell are more cause for anxiety than happy thoughts.

Regarding (1) the happy pills: these things are addictive and are associated with suicide.

Third time you've spouted untruths. There is no evidence whatsoever that anti-psychotics or antidepressants are addictive. There is growing evidence that addiction is a psychological and environmental problem than a biochemical issue.

Regarding (2) positive thinking: I personally found this to be a vacuous and stupid exercise.

That's because it is... Your assumptions about psychotherapy are disturbing. I suggest you research CBT which is the mainstay of psychotherapy and far more than positive thinking.

In conclusion, you need to do some reading because your assumptions are laughable.

[Nattering Nabob]

Basically, religion is better than psychiatry.

Carl Jung agreed with you, he said most of his patients came to him because they no longer believed in or properly practiced their religions and so there was a need for psychiatry to perform the function that religion could no longer perform in their lives.

[Ummon]

I have been convinced. I will now give Islam a chance.