[Decky]

if Americans had had the same drinking habits then that I understand Europeans do now, it probably wouldn't have been a part of the Word of Wisdom.

I think you might be misinformed about drinking habits in Europe.



Thank you answering my question on the marriage thing by the way, I had misunderstood you on the whole eternal marriage thing.

[Doug64]

I think you might be misinformed about drinking habits in Europe.

Perhaps, but I'm not misinformed about past drinking habits in the US. at the time of the Revolutionary War, colonists were drinking "the equivalent of three-and-a-half gallons of pure, two-hundred proof alcohol for each person." Considering that that consumption would not have been equally distributed, and you can get some idea of just how much some people were drinking. By the 1820s, that consumption was up to four to five gallons per person. Not surprisingly, the 1830s and 1840s saw the rapid spread the temperance movement. The Word of Wisdom was received in 1833.

Thank you answering my question on the marriage thing by the way, I had misunderstood you on the whole eternal marriage thing.

You're welcome.

[Decky]

at the time of the Revolutionary War, colonists were drinking "the equivalent of three-and-a-half gallons of pure, two-hundred proof alcohol for each person."

Per year? That's nowt.

[Doug64]

Per year? That's nowt.

It was enough to cause widespread problems with drunkenness and all that goes with it. Remember that's the average per person, with women and children included. I doubt the women and especially the children were drinking anywhere near that much, so the average per man would climb considerably. There's a good reason the temperance movement was driven by women, they and their children were the ones catching most of the hell from the hard-drinking habits of their men.

[Decky]

I suppose you should know I live in Britain so I doubt this conversation will go anywhere as everyone here is pissed all the time and it causes no problems. It's off topic anyway so I will but out.

[Wolke]

1. What branch of Christianity are you part of? (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, other)?

Orthodox.

2. Are you a classical trinitarian? (You believe in one whole God comprised of three persons, Father, Son, Holy Ghost/Spirit).

Yes.

3.Do you believe in multiple paths to God or the exclusivity of Christ?

There are multiple paths to God and multiple revelations.

4. Do you believe Hell is a real, physical place? If so do you believe it is eternal or temporary.

"Real, physical" is an oxymoron. Something cannot be real and physical at the same time. The real excludes the physical, and vice versa. Only God is real, as well as His Paradise by virtue of its participation in the divine substance. The anguish of Hell consists in separation from God (Paul describes Hell as 'exclusion from the Lord'). As only God is real and eternal, and Hell is exclusion from God, the angish of Hell cannot be eternal, but must be finite and relative. Moreover when Scripture proclaims that "God is Love," that implies the relativity and end of Hell.

5. Are Christianity and belief in evolution compatible?

Evolution within certain limits is compatible with Christianity, but evolutionism as a universal principle that affects and determines all things within the created order is a false doctrine that is contrary to Christianity and all other religions. We exist as eternal archetypes "incarnated" in matter. In our essential archetypal nature there is no "evolution", for truth is immutable. Moreover, evolution and degeneration often go hand in hand -- to "evolve" often means to fall from a higher state of existence.

6. What are your views on the relationship between Christianity and homosexuality?

Homosexuality constitutes a denial of the principle of complementarity and unity and is therefore a sin against the created order.

7. Predestination or free will? (Or something else entirely).

There is no free will. God is running everything.

10. How does your faith relate to your political ideology?

All political ideologies are a form of idolatry.

[Rich]

Yes. Fascism is fundamentally pagan, as it denies the universal brotherhood of all humans, individualism, and all the rest.

I can see how that applies to Christianity. I guess it could clash with much of modern Islam. Judaism and the early Caliphate seem entirely compatible with fascism to me. In fact if fascism means anything outside of the inter war context then they were fascist.

On evolution it strikes me that the key question is whether one believes in the Neanderthals and other early hominids. If they existed then the whole idea of humanity being a qualitative category is debunked. This actually strikes me as being as much of a problem for Atheists as for Christians, as most Atheists strike me as indistinguishable from the Church of England / Episcopalians on any practical moral issue.

To me humanity and the whole notion of a human individual seems highly subjective, this applies to early hominids, when did they become human, when did they get souls? When did they get these rights that seem so fashionable today. But it also applies to foetuses those born with mental abnormalities, the severely mentally ill and senile and people in vegetative states.

[Potemkin]

most Atheists strike me as indistinguishable from the Church of England / Episcopalians on any practical moral issue.

Well observed.

To me humanity and the whole notion of a human individual seems highly subjective, this applies to early hominids, when did they become human, when did they get souls? When did they get these rights that seem so fashionable today. But it also applies to foetuses those born with mental abnormalities, the severely mentally ill and senile and people in vegetative states.

Human belief systems are full of useful fictions. We cannot do without them. As Jack Nicholson so memorably put it, "You can't handle the truth!"

[Hirdmann]

[quote="nucklepunche"]This particular topic is generally relevant to Christian PoFo members. It is generally irrelevant to atheists. I'm not neccessarily trying to start a religious debate, I'm just trying to gauge the "flavors" of PoFo Christians.


1. What branch of Christianity are you part of? (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, other)?

Evangelical Catholic/Augsburgian Catholic. In common parlance: Confessional Lutheran.

2. Are you a classical trinitarian? (You believe in one whole God comprised of three persons, Father, Son, Holy Ghost/Spirit).

Yes. All Christians are. Those that reject the Trinity, are not Christians.


3.Do you believe in multiple paths to God or the exclusivity of Christ?

There is only one Way, one Truth, and One who is Life: Jesus Christ. Outside of Him is only darkness, death, and despair.


4. Do you believe Hell is a real, physical place? If so do you believe it is eternal or temporary.

It is real, yes. And a physical place.
Well, it is not real YET, but it WILL be.

5. Are Christianity and belief in evolution compatible?

I have no strong, set-in-stone opinion on this matter.

6. What are your views on the relationship between Christianity and homosexuality?

Practicing homophilia is a sin, just as any other sin the Bible condemns. That means: Homophiles can be Christians, but cannot engage in homophilia.

7. Predestination or free will? (Or something else entirely).

Single predestination. Our will is corrupt, so we cannot just randomly decide to "choose God". Our nature won't let us. If we are to say "yes" to God, then He has to call us first. That's when we have a choice.

8. What are your views on eschatology (end times theology)?

Not sure. I do know, though, that I despise the popularized view that has become presented to the world as "the Christian view", while it is nothing of the sort. It is biblical literalism at its most insane.

9. Do you support the ecumenical movement?

To a degree. But not at all costs.

10. How does your faith relate to your political ideology?

It is at the very core of my being, and thus affects my political views as well.

[Hindsite]

1. What branch of Christianity are you part of? (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, other)?

Protestant (Baptist).

2. Are you a classical trinitarian? (You believe in one whole God comprised of three persons, Father, Son, Holy Ghost/Spirit).

Yes.

3.Do you believe in multiple paths to God or the exclusivity of Christ?

No. Belief and faith in Christ.

4. Do you believe Hell is a real, physical place? If so do you believe it is eternal or temporary.

Yes, both physical and spiritual. Eternal.

5. Are Christianity and belief in evolution compatible?

No.

6. What are your views on the relationship between Christianity and homosexuality?

I believe it is a deviation from the will of God.

7. Predestination or free will? (Or something else entirely).

Free will.

8. What are your views on eschatology (end times theology)?

Post-tribution premillennialism.

9. Do you support the ecumenical movement?

No.

10. How does your faith relate to your political ideology?

Pro-life.