[Red Skull]

Going back to the original subject of the thread come mid December we celebrate Yule which is the winter solstice.

We celebrate Woden accompanied by Hugin, Munnin, Geri, Freki, and Sleipnir on the great wild hunt where during this time the dead especially the honored dead who die in combat or for a just cause are carried into the underworld and netherverse.

This is a time of being around family, gift giving, community celebration, feasting, drinking, singing, winter hunting, and praying for the departed dead. It is also for men the time of the right of passage in terms of older men acknowledging younger men in the community.

[Potemkin]

This is a time of being around family, gift giving, community celebration, feasting, drinking, singing, winter hunting, and praying for the departed dead. It is also for men the time of the right of passage in terms of older men acknowledging younger men in the community.

In 1015 AD, maybe. In 2015 AD... not so much.

[Red Skull]

In 1015 AD, maybe. In 2015 AD... not so much.

You're either an atheist that dismisses all religions or an Abrahamic follower that doesn't like religious expressions from outside of that enclosed sphere.

[mikema63]

You seem to be a complete cynic who is looking for a religion that meshes with your ideology rather than one that has any actual truth.

[kobe]

It's ironic, because he's trying to reject capitalism while turning pagan culture into something to be consumed by other right-wingers. What's your brand of Pre-Christian Paganism™?

[Potemkin]

You're either an atheist that dismisses all religions or an Abrahamic follower that doesn't like religious expressions from outside of that enclosed sphere.

I am merely pointing out that the Germanic pagan religions were appropriate for a certain material mode of production and a certain social environment, neither of which exist any longer. Attempting to reconstruct and re-enact such pagan religious ceremonies has the same relation to the actual pagan religions of that time as the modern-day re-enactors of the Sealed Knot have to the actual English Civil War. They dress up in fancy costumes and swing at each other with fake swords. They are not in earnest, and it's not a real battle.

[Red Skull]

You seem to be a complete cynic who is looking for a religion that meshes with your ideology rather than one that has any actual truth.

Please describe how I am trying to be cynical here. Truth? Well, there's a word with some controversy to it, no?

If you mean I am a supporter of this religion besides ancestoral value in that it is virtually pro European especially of the Germanic or Scandinavian variety, then of course.

It's ironic, because he's trying to reject capitalism while turning pagan culture into something to be consumed by other right-wingers. What's your brand of Pre-Christian Paganism™?

Religion as consumerism? Sorry, I don't see a correlation here.

I am merely pointing out that the Germanic pagan religions were appropriate for a certain material mode of production and a certain social environment, neither of which exist any longer. Attempting to reconstruct and re-enact such pagan religious ceremonies has the same relation to the actual pagan religions of that time as the modern-day re-enactors of the Sealed Knot have to the actual English Civil War. They dress up in fancy costumes and swing at each other with fake swords. They are not in earnest, and it's not a real battle.

And yet other religions equally as ancient have adopted to a post-modern environment just fine. Odalism likewise can also.

You being a fan of human history should know that religions come and go. They adapt or they die.

New religions prop up all the time of human history moreover some of the modern mainstream religions were influenced by even more ancient ones. Where would modern Judaism be without Zoroastrianism or the Egyptian cult of Aten?

[mikema63]

Please describe how I am trying to be cynical here. Truth? Well, there's a word with some controversy to it, no?

Between philosophers sure, but hereabouts we try not to hide behind things like solipsism.

If you mean I am a supporter of this religion besides ancestoral value in that it is virtually pro European especially of the Germanic or Scandinavian variety, then of course.

That is what is cynical, you don't care whether or not there actually is any pagan gods, you just find it useful to your purposes.

[Red Skull]

[*]
Between philosophers sure, but hereabouts we try not to hide behind things like solipsism.



That is what is cynical, you don't care whether or not there actually is any pagan gods, you just find it useful to your purposes.

Solipsism, eh? There are even limits to your objective material empiricism. Do you really wish to have a philosophical debate?

So, what you're saying is that as an Indian, Tibetan, or Japanese it is alright to worship pagan gods but if you're a Germanic and Scandinavian individual it's not alright to be Odalist. Thanks for the clarification.

[Dagoth Ur]

No what he is saying is that while they actually believe in their religions you are a cynic pretending to believe in Gods for political reasons.

[Nets]

Do you really believe Odin exists?

So, what you're saying is that as an Indian, Tibetan, or Japanese it is alright to worship pagan gods but if you're a Germanic and Scandinavian individual it's not alright to be Odalist. Thanks for the clarification.

I find it equally improbable that Zeus, Odin, Yahweh or Vishnu exist. The difference is that there is actually some cultural continuity in these cases. Shintoism is the culture of the Japanese and has been for millennia. Odinism isn't your culture, it is a rejection of your culture. This is why people find it more suspicious than Shintoism.

No what he is saying is that while they actually believe in their religions you are a cynic pretending to believe in Gods for political reasons.

This.

[kobe]

Religion as consumerism? Sorry, I don't see a correlation here.

In the capitalist mode of production there is a tendency to the commodification of all aspects of society, culture, goods, etc, that would not normally be consumed or not normally considered in the realm of commodities. Neo-Paganism is merely an expression of this tendency. Essentially you chose the Odalism brand, and will continue to consume this brand until you no doubt pick up another brand.

[Dagoth Ur]

I find it equally improbable that Zeus, Odin, Yahweh or Vishnu exist.

I agree with this. Hard.

[noemon]

I disagree with this, Zeus is Jupiter the planet, so it does exist just like all the rest of them. Greek myths are about the relationships of these planets , the earth & the universe and I'm pretty sure the other people's Gods represent something tangible(or at least that is how they came to be), too.

[Red Skull]

No what he is saying is that while they actually believe in their religions you are a cynic pretending to believe in Gods for political reasons.

Name a single religion that isn't political for starters.

[Dagoth Ur]

Name one religion that tolerates blatantly faithlessness among its members.

@noemon: What about Athena, where is her Heavenly Body?

[noemon]

I don't know but I was not initiated in the Athenian mystery.

[Dagoth Ur]

What about Dionysus? He's the best Greek God and the only one worthy of worship.

[mikema63]

He's in your liquor, he is what makes it work.

[Nets]

Growing up I had D'Aulaires' Book of Greek Myths and D'Aulaires' Book of Norse Myths. Both were beautifully illustrated, but the Norse one was a snoozefest compared to the Greek mythology.