[Besoeker]

Anything before adulthood. And no teenaging years are not in ot. Once you reach puberty . You're an adult thus accounted for your actions .
And you asked specifically how and on what m basing it .
Thus this.

And what in your scriptures defines puberty as the age of responsibility?

[anasawad]

The prophet explained it.
A boy only becomes an adult when he first ejaculate. Not sure if the word is correct. Basically when he start producing sperm.
For a girl when she reaches her first period.
Anyone with mental illness also is free of accountability.

[Besoeker]

The prophet explained it.
A boy only becomes an adult when he first ejaculate.

But does your scripture say specificly that's when they be accountable for their actions?
It's just a simple question.

[anasawad]

Yes. Only held accountable when you become an adult. Meaning reached puberty.
Btw. If you're trying to reach the point i think you are. Then inadvance.
Youre accountable only for the actions after you reach adulthood and if a lid dies before adulthood then directly to heaven.

[Besoeker]

Yes. Only held accountable when you become an adult. Meaning reached puberty.
Btw. If you're trying to reach the point i think you are. Then inadvance.
Youre accountable only for the actions after you reach adulthood and if a lid dies before adulthood then directly to heaven.

Accountable to a supernatural entity of which there is no proof?

[anasawad]

Proof for what ? This is from hadorh abu -dawod.

[Godstud]

Some nonsense from some man-made book is not proof or evidence of anything.

[anasawad]

He asked about what that book says . I asnwered.
The arguement all above does explain the description of god and make sense of it.
How ever beyond thst it is up to faith because while the description we have is possible.
The proofs god exist are not percieved by everyone thus beyond this is faith.

[Besoeker]

Proof for what ?

Proof for a supernatural entity to whom one is conditionally accountable.

[Frollein]

So the little girl wasn't tested, it just had to go through horrific abuse just because. And then if she doesn't forgive her abusers, she'll fail that test and will not be rewarded.

Ok.

Now, let's say the mother is a psychopath. Those people are born without a conscience. They have no moral compass to steer their actions. They also have structural and chemical differences to normal people.

In the group of criminals who were psychopathic, the scientists observed lower volumes of gray matter in brain regions involved in empathy, moral reasoning, and the processing of social emotions such as guilt and embarrassment. They also found abnormalities in white matter fibers leading to the prefrontal cortex, in regions involved in learning from reward and punishment.

The condition is apparently genetic:

Fallon’s discovery supports theories that genetics plays a part in psychopathic behavior because he is related to 7 people who allegedly committed murder.

Source
Source
Source

So, obviously god creates psychopaths, who then put innocents like this little three year old child through hell. According to you, the child didn't fail a test, wasn't tested at all. What about the psychopath? Was she being tested? If god created her this way, wouldn't he know that she would be unable to be a loving, caring mother? Did she fail or pass the test? Is god bored a lot? Or are his followers grasping at straws to justify a behaviour they would condemn in any other intelligent being?

[anasawad]

For a start. No one ever said if she didnt forgi e them she fail the test.
Secondly. I read many articales about psychopathy.
First a start. Psychopathy has 2 types. One is normal psychopathy which effects the neru structure of the brain due to genetic structure. This one os very common in all societies. Normal psychopaths will be some what rude. Not criminals.
Criminal psychopathy on the other hand is less common and it results from social elements or simply non-genetic elements.
Simply that psychopathic people when undergo a sufficient pressure they respond more violently.
But the basic element is social. Not genetic. As if we assumed that psychopaths are all criminals and abusive then youll have a good portion of the world killing each other by numbers. thus concluding that criminal psychopathy is created by social elements thus by us. You can have a look at syria and iraq for example.

Your arguement is grasping on straws. Not mine.

@besoeker.
There are many evidence in the quran that god does exist. And they all have either scientific or event based basis.
Whether it was the description of black holes which wee doscovered relatively recently. Or the description geological facts that neither were known only until recently. Or the prophecies which many are coming true by letter nowadays.
Hell. It even predicted what some muslim society fashion would be in our current days.
But if you expect an evidence like god showing hemself. Then you just skipped the ehole concept of faith.

[Frollein]

For a start. No one ever said if she didnt forgi e them she fail the test.

I misread your text, then.

Those kids might have suffer injustoce or crime from someone like the girl in this case. Thus when their trial comes . Theyll be trialed also by her for her rights and only pass if she forgives them.

First a start. Psychopathy has 2 types. One is normal psychopathy which effects the neru structure of the brain due to genetic structure. This one os very common in all societies. Normal psychopaths will be some what rude. Not criminals.
Criminal psychopathy on the other hand is less common and it results from social elements or simply non-genetic elements.
Simply that psychopathic people when undergo a sufficient pressure they respond more violently.
But the basic element is social. Not genetic.

That is not what I read and it's not the scientific consensus. I'd like to see your sources for your claim. In fact, this sounds like nonsense. And you evaded my questions about the psychopathic mother.

Your arguement is grasping on straws. Not mine.

Which straws would that be? These are common enough scenarios. You have failed to provide a logical explanation for them, based on your premise of the existence of an all-powerful, all-knowing divine being.

[anasawad]

It is hard to copy from other pages currently. Search causes of psychopathy on wiki app. Its divided into 2 types at the start. One normal and other criminal. And its causes are both genetic and non genetic.

I actually did answer your question. In idea. Once we create a cycle of inhumane behavioirs due tp disfinctional societies. It would repeat it self again and again until we fix it. Thus for example if someone abused his kids. In sufficient amiunt his kids will repeat the procces. And so as their kids. There are 2 aspects of it here for failue. 1- the failure of society to end the cycle and repair it self. Thus responsibility is held by all of it. 2- failue of the parents or mother in this case not to know better.sincehumanity built it self by learning and overcoming faulty aspects of it self. Then when she did not. While having the ability and condition to. She failed.

I did provide logical explanation in previous posts. I did not say a single society failed. I said humanity failed. and even if one society managed to preserve it self. Others would focus enough force to make it fail as well. Now humanity as whole is a failure race for it reached a stage of self destruction in such ways.

God gave us a message held by a number of prophets. The thing very clearly mentioned in it is that it is for everyone in the world.
And in a number of places whether in islam or other abrahamic religions. It said the rightous and the corrupt can not co exist. If the rightous did not repair then thry will be corrupted.
This unlike some would say is not about conerting people but about establishing thecsystem that allows humanity as ehole to succeed and preserve it self. When thecsolutions are not applied orcrejected. It doesnt mean people are refusing to followcgod. It means people are focusing on the illusion of saving themselves rather than humanity. Which is failure and the reason why such things can happen. And infact we as i said before actually empower these things by finding excuses to it.
Like you just now. You said what was the women's fault if she was born like that. What you said means that these events and the people to commit them are normal. And by others. This can be used as a free pass for doing it. Which actuslly is also happening.
I stated it when i commented about criminal rights somewhere in previous posts.

And this does lead to the idea i said a couple of posts ago. It does not matter whther you believe in god or not.
We as humanity have the solutions and the ability to apply them we simply dont want to. So even if we didnt fail a test by god we failed the test and wizdom of life.

[Besoeker]

@besoeker.
There are many evidence in the quran that god does exist.

Who wrote the quran? Where did the material for it come from?

[anasawad]

@frollien.
Missed the last part of your post. So here it is. M gonna try make it short .
M going to start with the description of god in the quran. God when described hem self.
2 very important descriptions were mentioned .1- he said of hem self that he exist from azal. Which means eternity. But the word exist came in timeless tense. 2-he said he wasnt born. Nor gives birth. Meanig there is no cycle.
Now for the universe. The universe is in a case of an infinite cycle of life. Now we all know it started with a big bang. The big bang is a singularity exploding.at one point the universe will collapse back on it self to a singularity then explodes again. And keepa on like that so its an infinite cycle. So the universe has a perfect system where itll just rebirth it self every while.
But that cycle has to start from somewhere. Because the universe abide the laws of space. Time. Matter. Abd mass. And in all of those you can have infonity but it always has a start. So people suggest that there was a some sort of primitive verse where the 4 forces controlling the universe evolved into this system and started this cycle. But this primitive verse has matter in it so where does this matter come from ? Now we can stretch it further and say it kept evolving from one universal system to anther until it reached its final form now. But that still means its infinite and thus must have a start. So it must have been placed there to begin all this cycle.
Some physicists also suggest a multi verse. Where there are infinite number of universes and each spawn others. But thst still under the same logic must have a starting point. And the only logical explanation is something put it there. And logically thats god.


@besoeker.
Well. The quran just as the bible and the torah and etc. Are called holy books. Where do usually holy books come from ??

[Besoeker]

OK. A slight change of tack.
I'm quite old old and pretty laid back. I retired about three months ago. With inpending retirement I did a couple of things in preparation. I bought a camera and got a dog.
I love nature and we walk a lot in woodlands with our big handsome dog.



If there is a god, he must have created this beautiful beast. He is such a gentle and loving fellow. The local children all know him and fuss over him.
I have gone through a lot of cancer treatment in the past few months but he is always there for me. I'm away for a day and the welcome home I get is something you couldn't buy.

Mostly, he goes everywhere we go and he travels well. This afternoon we went out for a late lunch and left him at home. Dogs not permitted.
I've just come back from the last walk of the day. It's pitch black but I put the little lights on him so that I can see where he is.

We met a guy on crutches - arthritis in both legs. Max, my dog, loves him to bits. And is so easy on him. Just sits down and lets the guy stroke him. Somehow he just knows.

So who needs god when you have a dog like Max.

[Zionist Nationalist]

at one point the universe will collapse back

this is just a theory

but the more common theory is that the universe will be torn apart and with it time and space as we know it will no longer exist

[anasawad]

Thats also theory that i also mentioned it . Its part of the multi verse theories.
Where each universe will be torn into multiple singularities. And simply at one point those will explode and spawn new universes.
Its the last part.
Lol
@besoeker.
Firstly congrats on your retirement and the success of your treatment.
NIce life you have there. Make sure to enjoy it..
For the point you made. I guess we have to agree to disagree.

[Besoeker]

@besoeker.
Well. The quran just as the bible and the torah and etc. Are called holy books. Where do usually holy books come from ??

Do tell please.