[Otebo]

Belgian bishop advocates church recognition of gay relationships

Bishop Johan Bonny of Antwerp, Belgium, has called for ecclesiastical recognition of gay relationships, according to an interview published in De Morgen, a Belgian newspaper, on Dec. 27.

The official teaching that the Catholic church can recognize only male-female committed relationships has to change, Bonny said.

"There should be recognition of a diversity of forms," he said. "We have to look inside the church for a formal recognition of the kind of interpersonal relationship that is also present in many gay couples. Just as there are a variety of legal frameworks for partners in civil society, one must arrive at a diversity of forms in the church. … The intrinsic values are more important to me than the institutional question. The Christian ethic is based on lasting relationships where exclusivity, loyalty, and care are central to each other."

Bonny made headlines in September when he issued a letter to the Vatican in preparation for the Synod on the family in October. At that time, Bonny stressed that the church urgently needs to connect with contemporary society, showing more respect for homosexuality, divorced people and modern kinds of relationships.

“In his or her life,” he said, “everyone has to deal with relationships, friendship, family, and children's education. We should not deny that dealing with these issues within the church has brought injuries and traumas. Too many people were excluded for a long time."

Bonny said the open-minded spirit and pastoral focus of Pope Francis have given him the courage to speak out about issues that are important and pressing for today’s believers.

Will the church at some point give its blessing for gay and lesbian couples?

“Personally, I find that in the church more space must be given to acknowledge the actual quality of gay and lesbian couples; and such a form of shared-life should meet the same criteria as found in an ecclesiastical marriage,” Bonny said. “… And we have to acknowledge that such criteria can be found in a diversity of relationships and one needs to search for various models to give form to those relationships.”

Bonny stressed that the man-woman relationship has a special place in the Christian tradition.

“This relationship will continue to retain its own particular sacramental character and liturgical form,” Bonny said. “But this particularity does not have to be exclusive nor does it have to close the door on a diversity of relationships whose inner qualities the church can acknowledge.”

“Indeed, we need to seek a formal recognition of the kind of relationship that exists between many gay and lesbian couples,” he said. “Does that recognition have to be a sacramental marriage? Perhaps the church could much better reflect on a diversity of forms of relationships. One has the same kind of discussion about civil marriages. In Belgium the same model (for civil marriages) exists for man-woman relations as well as for same-sex relations.”

Later in his interview, Bonny stressed openness, the need for further reflection and the danger of getting wrapped up in a complex ideological discussion. He stressed as well that he is a strong advocate for recognizing a diversity of relationships that arise from serious reflection on practical pastoral realities.

Professor Rik Torfs, canon law expert and rector of the Catholic University of Leuven, warned that one should not minimize Bonny’s approach.

"Do not underestimate the significance of this,” he said. “Bonny advocates a change from principles long held as unshakable, something no bishop could have done under the dogmatic pontificates of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI."

Bonny has a doctorate in theology from the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome. In 1997, Cardinal Godfried Danneels and the Belgian bishops appointed him rector of the Belgian College in Rome; and in 2008 he was appointed the Bishop of Antwerp. Most observers see him becoming the next archbishop (and cardinal) of the Malines-Brussels archdiocese, when the incumbent, Archbishop André-Joseph Léonard, offers the pope his letter of retirement, at age 75, in May.

[John A. Dick is a historical theologian. He is retired from the Catholic University of Leuven and currently is a visiting professor of religion and values in American society at the University of Ghent.

A Bishop (likely to soon be a Cardinal) openly calling for this with no reprimand from Rome? What different times we live in.

The Bishop might be quite far ahead but there is certainly a very strong movement in the Church to give validity to relationships outside of the traditional model of heterosexual marriage. Whilst the preparatory Synod last year may not have passed the now famous passages about irregular unions and welcoming homosexuals, I think it is very significant that a substantial majority of Bishops and Cardinals did indeed vote in favour, and the passages just fell short of the required two-thirds majority by a couple of votes.

Like many, I hope that the Church will develop a more merciful attitude to those who cannot commit to life-long traditional marriage and have not heard the call to celibacy. At the same time, we should never stop upholding sacramental, heterosexual marriage as the ideal nor simply seek to make Holy Mother Church bend to the whims of the secular world. But there is no reason why the Church cannot reach back into her traditions to bless irregular unions outside of sacramental marriage. Such positive affirmation from the Church could be a powerful force for countering promiscuity and immorality in society and emphasising the benefits of stable, long-term, monogamous relationships.

[blackjack21]

Whilst the preparatory Synod last year may not have passed the now famous passages about irregular unions and welcoming homosexuals, I think it is very significant that a substantial majority of Bishops and Cardinals did indeed vote in favour, and the passages just fell short of the required two-thirds majority by a couple of votes.

Most of these people are homosexuals, and some of them are pederasts. The problem with gay marriage or matrimony is that "marriage" comes from merier and "matrimony" comes from mater mony. It is literally about procreation. You cannot have a wedding between two men and call it Holy Matrimony, because it literally means becoming a mother. Major aspects of Catholicism include sub cults like the Virgin Mary, who ostensibly becomes quick with child from God himself. Now you're going to have two men joined together in Holy Matrimony, the state of becoming a mother? I can't think of a better way to destroy a religion.

But there is no reason why the Church cannot reach back into her traditions to bless irregular unions outside of sacramental marriage.

True, but it does have to be different from Matrimony; otherwise, accomodating homosexuals and their insipid emotionalism renders the rest of the teachings absurd.

[Otebo]

Firstly, your remarks about the Synod Fathers are just silly and needlessly offensive. But there is a grain of truth in that homosexuality has always been present in the Church. What I am not for one moment advocating is that the Church embraces sacramental same-sex marriage. Heterosexual marriage is something special because of it's unique relationship to procreation, as you rightly point out, and it's place in scripture.

But such marriage is not for everybody, as Christ himself taught.

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

What the Church can do is, in the spirit of Saint Bacchus and Saint Sergius, bless and affirm stable and loving relationships which fall short of that ideal.

[Donna]

Like many, I hope that the Church will develop a more merciful attitude to those who cannot commit to life-long traditional marriage and have not heard the call to celibacy.

The catechism does say that homosexuals are called to celibacy. I believe that changing this retroactively does an injustice to the souls who successfully struggled against the temptation to sin against their vows, including those who are alive today. I don't think the church should ever permit anal intercourse as this goes against the elevation of natural law in Catholic teaching, which is essential to a host of other issues and their moral interpretation.

At the same time, we should never stop upholding sacramental, heterosexual marriage as the ideal nor simply seek to make Holy Mother Church bend to the whims of the secular world. But there is no reason why the Church cannot reach back into her traditions to bless irregular unions outside of sacramental marriage. Such positive affirmation from the Church could be a powerful force for countering promiscuity and immorality in society and emphasising the benefits of stable, long-term, monogamous relationships.

There's a lot of problems with John Boswell's book on adelphopoiesis, but I think it mostly overlooks that Platonic love between two male Christian friends was much more of a thing in pre-modern times than it is today. Also from Wiki:

The Russian polymath scholar, priest, and martyr Pavel Florensky offered a famous description of adelphopoiesis in his monumental 1914 book The Pillar and the Ground of The Truth: An Essay in Orthodox Theodicy in Twelve Letters, which included an early bibliography on the topic.[2] Florensky described traditional Christian friendship, expressed in adelphopoiesis, as "a community molecule [rather than an atomistic individualism], a pair of friends, which is the principle of actions here, just as the family was this kind of molecule for the pagan community," reflecting Christ's words that "wherever two or more of you are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of thee."[3] Florensky in his theological exegesis of the rite described an overlap of Christian agapic and philic love in adelphopoiesis, but not eros, noting that its ceremonies consisted of prayer, scriptural reading, and ritual that involved partaking in presanctified eucharistic gifts [4]

Of course, that doesn't mean that the church cannot follow the impulse of the heart, which is a lot of what Pope Francis' papacy is about. Uncharitable attitudes toward homosexuals, like those of blackjack21, should be actively opposed by those follow Christ. But in my opinion, church doctrine has always been something that is better managed by conservatives. The new evangelization is important, but we should also remember that the secular world is a sinful one that must be sanctified. I think the Catholic Church has suffered enough losses since Vatican II and there needs to be a re-affirmation of tradition, of scholasticism, moral teaching, asceticism, vocations, and especially the Latin liturgy. Instead of trying to quantify secular matters in the form of non-referential documents - like the one produced by the Synod Fathers last year - there should be a greater effort placed into strengthening the beauty of Roman Catholicism.

[Rich]

I believe that changing this retroactively does an injustice to the souls who successfully struggled against the temptation to sin against their vows,

By that token Christianity did a great injustice to all the Jewish souls who successfully struggled against the temptation to sin by not following the full Law before the Christians came along and treated the Jewish Law as if it were a pick and mix salad bar.

[Otebo]

Donald, I am not advocating that the Church abandons all her moral teachings and bows to the whims of a secular society which glories in sexual immorality, promiscuity, abortion-on-tap and a host of other sinful practices. And I am totally with you on re-affirming tradition, the liturgy, the place of beauty in the Faith etc. The rampant abuses perpetrated by those who have hijacked Vatican II has done untold damage to the Church. But at the same time as restoring what she has lost, the Church must hold on to the spirit of mercy which Pope Francis is so keen to emphasise. That doesn't mean everybody simply choosing their own moral code or ignoring the Magisterium where they see fit. But it can mean finding new structures and frameworks to encourage those who fall short of certain ideals (who doesn't after all?) to live as good and holy lives as possible. I don't believe that everybody is blessed with the gift of celibacy, and history should have taught us that by now. The difference is that now we speak openly about things which have been swept under the carpet for centuries.

The sacrament of heterosexual marriage must be upheld as something unique, a gift from God. To stay true to Christ's teachings, we have to make it plain to people that it is a once in a life time commitment, that once you make those vows before God there is no going back. But for those who aren't ready, who have a different inclination, who struggle to honestly make that commitment, who haven't been blessed with the discipline to remain celibate, the Church should not simply condemn them and demand that they reject all their hearts tell them. I don't see why the Church cannot embrace and bless those in civil unions, and use this to promote monogamy and stable relationships, whilst making clear that this form of union is far short of sacramental marriage and that those seeking to bring children into this world should enter into a proper marriage.

What I am not arguing for is gay marriage or gay adoption or any such. Just that the Church looks at new ways of showing mercy to those in irregular unions, both heterosexual and homosexual.

[Donna]

I don't think that blessing gay couples is the answer. Every religious tradition in the world teaches the same metaphysics of sexuality, i.e., that recreational sex is sinful and fleeting (in Western religion) or, in Dharmic tradition, it is part of a repetitious cycle of illusory desire that binds the soul to the rhythm of death and rebirth. The mystery of our tradition elevates the scandal of the Cross above the suffering of any man, and by extension of this divine mercy, the mystery of tradition is a calling to all souls to observe the way of the Cross (of poverty, chastity and obedience). After all, Christian marriage isn't about managing human sexual behaviour, as some secular critics are mistaken. It's about becoming co-creators with God in the renewal of the earth and this is what Christians are called to if they are not called to the sacramental ministry or a celibate life of prayer. In my opinion, just because somebody is unable to remain celibate should not mean that they are no longer called to celibacy; it means that they are also called to prayerful intimacy with the sacrament of reconciliation, which is the gift of the direct presence of the mercy of Jesus Christ. Of course, I'm not qualified to assist others with their discernment.

[Otebo]

I certainly understand your position, Donald, and I respect where you are coming from. Your devotion to bearing one's own Cross is admirable. We aren't going to agree, but I don't want to leave you with the impression that I'm some rampaging modernist who wants to ignore the Magisterium at will and urge the faithful to live for their own desires. Certainly not. I have my own personal struggles on this issue, I continually ask myself how can I reconcile my sexuality with being a faithful Catholic? As well as being obedient to the Church and her leaders, I have a duty to listen to my conscience and to seek to hear even the faintest echo of that divine voice. However I constantly fear that I am in danger of "wallowing in the luxury of a merely individualistic morality" as Vatican II warned us . Nobody said our faith would be easy.

So we also must learn to listen more to our conscience. Be careful, however: this does not mean we ought to follow our ego, do whatever interests us, whatever suits us, whatever pleases us. That is not conscience. Conscience is the interior space in which we can listen to and hear the truth, the good, the voice of God. It is the inner place of our relationship with Him, who speaks to our heart and helps us to discern, to understand the path we ought to take, and once the decision is made, to move forward, to remain faithful.

Here's an interesting article from today's news:

Dublin priest tells congregation he is gay – and wins standing ovation

Father Martin Dolan urges parishioners to back same-sex marriage in Ireland’s forthcoming referendum

An Irish Catholic priest received a standing ovation from his congregation when he revealed he was gay and then declared his support for same-sex marriage from the pulpit, according to reports.

Father Martin Dolan, who has been a priest at the Church of St Nicholas of Myra in Francis Street, Dublin for 15 years, made the unexpected comments during mass.

The priest, who was unavailable for comment and is reported to be on holiday, urged his congregation to back same-sex marriage in the forthcoming Irish referendum.

Parishioners are understood to have applauded when Dolan announced “I’m gay myself” last Saturday.

Speaking to the Irish Sun, community youth worker Liz O’Connor said: “We are all very proud of Father Martin. Because he has admitted that he is gay he doesn’t change the person that he was before it.”

Gay equality groups in Ireland, including Marriage Equality Ireland and the Gay and Lesbian Equality Network, have praised the priest’s decision to come out in front of worshippers.

A referendum on legalising gay marriage in Ireland will be held on a date to be fixed in May. An opinion poll in the Irish Times last month found that 71% of the Republic’s electorate would vote yes to allow gay marriages in the country.

The hierarchy of the Catholic church has fought against gay marriage in the Republic, however, warning it would be a “grave injustice”.

I have no problem with a Priest telling his parishoners about his sexuality. Good luck to him. And it fills me with joy that the Catholic laity are so full of compassion.

But what kind of age are we living in when he thinks that Holy Mass is the acceptable forum in which to do so? What an act of narcissism to turn the homily into the equivelant of your own personal blog or tabloid column. And it is hardly credible that a Catholic congregation stood up and applauded during Mass. Even the worst sort of happy-clappy, pseudo-evangelicals would surely shy away from such abuse. I suggest that anybody who thinks that this is appropriate heads for the nearest Anglican church.

Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.

[Political Interest]

The only reason some people in the Catholic Church would want this is because of the way society has gone. Fifty years ago such a thought would be inconceivable.

Can the Pope create provisions for recognition of homosexual relationships?