[Pants-of-dog]

@Godstud

No, I read the whole thing, and I am now introducing more information that your previous arguments did not address.

There is no reason why men cannot also take time off work to do unpaid family work. When men refuse to do this, a wage gaps occurs, and this is partly due to sexism.

[Godstud]

Having a family and a career, at the same time, has trade-offs. That's the REALITY.

If the man has a high-paying job, and he takes 2 months off to take care of the family, it is unlikely that he will be returning to said job, again. Most of the time, this is enough to completely side-track a career.

A woman, has a choice to make. She can either have children, or a career. It's extremely hard to maintain both.

Your claim of sexism is like complaining about men and women being different. It's just dumb.

[Pants-of-dog]

Having a family and a career, at the same time, has trade-offs. That's the REALITY.

And it is also REALITY that men and women have different expectations from society and experiences when it comes to how that trade off works. Men are supposed to focus on their careers and women on their family.

If the man has a high-paying job, and he takes 2 months off to take care of the family, it is unlikely that he will be returning to said job, again. Most of the time, this is enough to completely side-track a career.

And yet women are expected to do this whenever family duties call. And this then has the negative impact that you yourself have pointed out here.

A woman, has a choice to make. She can either have children, or a career. It's extremely hard to maintain both.

And yet men are expected to have both because it is assumed some woman will do unpaid work to maintain both for him.

Your claim of sexism is like complaining about men and women being different. It's just dumb.

Then why do you seem to be agreeing with it and providing explanations as to why this happens?

[Godstud]

And yet women are expected to do this whenever family duties call. And this then has the negative impact that you yourself have pointed out here.

If women want a family, they have to make a choice that men do not, since men cannot get pregnant. It is sad that I have to explain basic biology to you.

And yet men are expected to have both because it is assumed some woman will do unpaid work to maintain both for him.

They have a choice. They can do it, or not. Raising children is NOT unpaid work. Doing household chores is not unpaid work It is what you must do to live.

I must cook my dinner, do dishes, and do laundry a few times a week. It is not unpaid work. It is what I must do to live and maintain myself. You are being purposefully disingenuous.

Men, in general, are more likely to focus on career than family. Fact.

Then why do you seem to be agreeing with it and providing explanations as to why this happens?

You do not seem to understand that this is not sexism. It's reality.

Do you know what Sexism even is?

Sexism
prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Godstud

At this point, you are pretending that raisin a family is not unpaid work.

Since this is obviously factually incorrect, your argument is based on something that we know is wrong.

[Godstud]

At this point, you are pretending that raisin a family is not unpaid work.

Yes. It is not unpaid work. It is simply "raising a family".

Since this is obviously factually incorrect, your argument is based on something that we know is wrong.

So brushing your teeth unpaid work according to you?

[Pants-of-dog]

Yes, doing work like cleaning a house is work.

And most of us do not get paid for it.

Now you know!

[Godstud]

Yes, doing work like cleaning a house is work.

Cleaning your own house is called a "household chore". Yes, you can pay some people to do that, but when you are caring for yourself and your children, this is just the way it is.

You are attempting to compare a career with household chores and responsibilities, that simply come with your day-to-day existence. This is simply to push a "sexist" narrative that you've fabricated.

[wat0n]

Should people who live alone be paid for cleaning their own dwelling?

[Godstud]

I should get paid for washing my own clothes! It is unpaid work! Why can't I claim Welfare for taking care of myself?

[Agent Steel]

I do not believe this. Feminists are active because inequalities still exist. Like in the US, women are still paid less than men. Why? If it's the same job, women should be paid based on experience. Women are paid 83% of what men are paid. If feminists did not speak up about this, then men would not even touch the subject. Men in power just want to keep things the way they are, business as usual. If I could afford to be an activist, I would be active in fighting for equal pay for women and minorities in the US.

This is a ridiculous point.

You make it sound like we should expect total equality of outcome. There's always going to be discrepancies in pay, and you have no solid proof that the reason for the discrepancy is sexism or misogyny.

I would say if the average woman makes 83% of the average man, that's pretty damn good, considering the differences between the sexes.

[Pants-of-dog]

Cleaning your own house is called a "household chore". Yes, you can pay some people to do that, but when you are caring for yourself and your children, this is just the way it is.

You are attempting to compare a career with household chores and responsibilities, that simply come with your day-to-day existence. This is simply to push a "sexist" narrative that you've fabricated.

And men do less household chores.

And men do less of the logistical work of raising a family.

This is true even when the woman is the main breadwinner.

This type of “household chores” and logistics is not paid. It does, however, take a lot of effort and thought.

And many people do not consider it real work because it is not paid.

And one of the main reasons why men do not partake equally in household chores and logistical support is because of social expectations about gender roles.

—————-

@Agent Steel

You have not explained why you think people should tolerate your harmful emotional outbursts. Please do so now.

[Unthinking Majority]

And men do less household chores.

And men do less of the logistical work of raising a family.

This is true even when the woman is the main breadwinner.

This type of “household chores” and logistics is not paid. It does, however, take a lot of effort and thought.

And many people do not consider it real work because it is not paid.

And one of the main reasons why men do not partake equally in household chores and logistical support is because of social expectations about gender roles.

Yes I agree. I would say many men haven't picked up enough of the domestic duties if both parents work. I think it keeps getting more equal as time goes on though.

[Unthinking Majority]

@Unthinking Majority

How many children do you have?

—————

The wage gap is due to the fact that women take time off from their careers in order to have kids and raise them for a few years.

If men did this, the wage gap would vanish.

But men do not do this. Because of many reasons, including sexism.

I don't like divulging personal details on pofo.

Yes the wage gap would be greatly reduced if men and women were equally out of the workforce because of kids. Some of this difference is gender roles, some of it is workplace or government policy regarding time off, some of it is biological reality (men don't get pregnant or need physical and psychological recovery time etc).

[Pants-of-dog]

@Unthinking Majority

You seem like someone without children.

Canada has a decent system where a certain portion of the parental leave payment must be allotted to the parent who gave birth with the remainder available to whichever parent takes time off,

[wat0n]

I think @Pants-of-dog should pay me for cleaning my apartment myself.

[Pants-of-dog]

Are people seriously arguing that unpaid work is not work because everyone without maids or nannies has to do it?

[wat0n]

No, just that you shouldn't be paid for cleaning your own home.

[Pants-of-dog]

Oh, you guys are attacking some strawman, but also agree with my claim that household chores and planning for families is unpaid work.

[Agent Steel]

You have not explained why you think people should tolerate your harmful emotional outbursts. Please do so now.

You strawmanned me very badly earlier in this topic, so I don't see why I owe you another explanation.