[Ummon]

There are a host of studies indicating that there are real, fundamental, and possibly biological differences between liberals and conservatives.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt ... _mind.html

http://2012election.procon.org/view.res ... eID=004818

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_an ... rientation

With this in mind is there any hope overcoming the communication gap between political groups so that we can work cooperatively on large scale problems which affect us all such as providing enough food, water, and energy for each person, decreasing population over time in a responsible manner, etc?

[Dagoth Ur]

Oh weird the two wings of liberalism are different. Imagine that.

Also crude worthless biological determinism is crude and worthless.

[Someone5]

There are a host of studies indicating that there are real, fundamental, and possibly biological differences between liberals and conservatives.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt ... _mind.html

http://2012election.procon.org/view.res ... eID=004818

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_an ... rientation

I see no way to actually distinguish the nature of the relationship between biology and political orientation; does political orientation follow from biological differences, or do the biological differences follow from political differences? After all, given that theory predicts that a neural network like the human brain will reshape itself in response to its training (I.E. experiences), there's no particular reason to think that the biology is the cause, rather than the effect.

[uggabugga]

Polarity is a fundamental in creation. This is true in much more than electricity and magnetic opposites for instance. Our minds and the societies that they produce exhibit the very same things. Even in classic religion, almost any of them, there is the duplicity of good and evil, sin and punishment, heaven and hell....etc. Can it be any surprise to find conservative and liberal ideals in our America? No. Let's consider electricity in it's free state. There is an inclination for stability through neutralization and when this is achieved there is something like a force reconciliation present. Now compare this to our political model and see the same thing. There are two sides in the spectrum and, in the center, the point of stability..... the moderates. It is they how should be able to look to the left and the right, find the best each has to offer, and synthesize this into a plan for action which will give to us all the highest and best that American has to offer. This is the way it should be but instead the thoughtless among us want only one end of the scale to be present. Everything right or everything left will never work. Why bother saying this I wonder? Who is going to actually agree? Probably no one. Man I need a beer bad.

[Paradigm]

I don't doubt there are psychological and even neurological differences, but I doubt they can easily be reduced to biological ones. It seems like class, region, and culture have much more sway over such matters than biology.

[BATIK]

I don't doubt there are psychological and even neurological differences, but I doubt they can easily be reduced to biological ones. It seems like class, region, and culture have much more sway over such matters than biology.

Interesting, when, for example, the working class have always been more conservative and the upper classes always more liberal (at least in the U.S, when voting between the GOP and Democrats). It's a bit counter-intuitive.

[quetzalcoatl]

Interesting, when, for example, the working class have always been more conservative and the upper classes always more liberal (at least in the U.S, when voting between the GOP and Democrats). It's a bit counter-intuitive.

It's a function of mindset. Workers and peasants correctly do not perceive themselves as having any effective control over their lives, nor do they believe that political changes will affect their status. An embrace of apathy and/or cynicism acts as a firewall against existential despair.
Political movements are lead by educated elites, even those they believe they are working on behalf of workers. Since workers experience most change as profoundly destructive (the loss of employment, destruction of communities), it breeds a profound distrust of change itself. This is a justified reaction from their point of view. Even programs designed for their benefit are administered with a heaping dose of humiliation and contempt.

[Paradigm]

Interesting, when, for example, the working class have always been more conservative and the upper classes always more liberal (at least in the U.S, when voting between the GOP and Democrats). It's a bit counter-intuitive.

False

[BATIK]

False

Thanks for the link. However, what I said was not false and your link doesn't contradict it because we're defining things like working class differently, and also yours shows states won not raw votes which should be the metric. For example, in 08' 52% of those making $250k or more voted for Obama [Source]. Your link hides this kind of statistic.

Also, in 2008 the Republican vote share never exceeded 55% in any income class.

The fact is that upper classes are not overwhelmingly Republican when it might seem on the surface that the more business party would be more in their interests.

Plus, in Europe it's undeniable that the working class are astonishingly conservative. I should have not limited my first statement to just the U.S, so I'll rather say that across the capitalist west the working class is generally more conservative than any other class.

[Technology]

Aren't the working classes of Europe more socially conservative, and so reject Marxism more on those grounds than on the grounds of its actual economic transformation? Obviously in America it's also built around the working man's worship of "free enterprize", but I think in the Eurozone it may be more of a social issues problem for the working classes, and a reaction to "cultural Marxism".

I've met quite a few people who would be considered left leaning (though they might not realize it) economically and believe in a public economy, but they also hate "foreigners n' faggits". I suppose these people are dying off though, because they are usually at least 30.

[Godstud]

When Liberals object to something they don't scream CONSERVATIVE(like an insult)! Like the Conservatives do(a la Rik).

[Great Smell of Brut]

Using the odd US usage of 'liberal' Liberals generally scream 'fascist' or 'racist' against anyone the disagree with. I'd be on the left of US politics on almost every issue but I find the anti free speech and race obsession of teh US left to be utterly abhorrent.

[Godstud]

You don't like it that people cannot say whatever they want, no matter how harmful it is, to whomever they want?

You don't like it when people point out problems with racism that still exist?

Event he US political left isn't really very far left.

Sure, some people take it to extremes, as with everything, but the ideals of equality are worthy, even if the road to it isn't exactly mapped out.

[Torus34]

It's not an easy thing [most posters here will agree,] to look at the human condition from a position outside that of our own cultures. Culture is deeply pervasive. Peer pressure is very real. As the twig is bent, etc.

Look at the US and you'll see concentrations of 'liberals' and 'conservatives'* in specific geographic areas. Add to this the fact that most Americans aren't overly concerned with politics [Ref: turnouts in party primaries] and it's rather easy to accept that the 'go along to get along' path is chosen almost unconsciously by large numbers of people -- in all probability the overwhelming majority.

In other words, folks in the US aren't liberal or conservative due to some intellectual process but rather because they find it beneficial, in a non-thinking way, to accept the prevailing culture. On a day-to-day basis, those who wish to swim against the political view in their immediate surroundings will not find life as pleasant.

* The quotes indicate that US liberals and conservatives aren't necessarily the same as those who are so named in other countries. Additionally, they should not be confused with political party. When the Democrat Party changed it's stance a few decades ago during the dismantling of overt segregation, the 'Dixie-crats' were quite comfortable in shifting over to the Republican Party as soon as that party signaled that it would cater to their prevailing social views.

[Quantum]

It looks pseudoscientific to me. Holding an political ideology isn't concrete and people change their ideologies all the time. It also exaggerates the difference between liberals and conservatives because they both support the capitalist status quo, with the former supporting minor concessions and the latter taking away.

[Great Smell of Brut]

I am what you would call 'Upper class'. I went to one of the most famous prep schools, I live off property and yet I am essentially a liberal. On the vast majority of Issue -Gay rights, womens rights, animal rights etc my position is strongly liberal as it is for most of my friends. The world for us is a friendly place and different peoples generally equals new experiences for us.

I think people on the left/Radical position impose their views on how upper class people are rather than actually finding out.

[Torus34]

@ GSoB: [An amusing acronym ...]

We as a species like to 'chunk' our thinking.* Makes it easier to shuffle ideas about. Thus we form an image of 'liberals' or 'conservatives' and then use it as a 'one size fits all'. Generalizations, taken to their limits, often break down. It's been noted that as we age we tend to become more conservative. This pocm, now in his 9th decade, should be somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun. Instead, I'm a [gasp!] secular humanist. Stuff happens. ;-)

[Aside: My background is blue-collar working class tempered in the furnace of a classical education. While we're at it, ever note that there's no conservative equivalent to an education in the liberal arts?]

In the interest of fairness, it should be noted that liberals aren't the sole manufacturers of stereotypes. Other persuasions have had a go at it from time to time.

* Another of the dangers of 'chunking' is reification.