[EastCoastAmerican]

Many Republican politicians oppose access to birth control to varying degrees of restriction. Some want to ban it outright,while others mostly want to ban government funding for it. The former argument is propagated by many fundamentalist Christians. The common Democratic response is that the issue isn't primarily about "encouraging responsibility" so much as it is controlling the sex lives of women.

I used to think that the Democratic response was only an extreme caricature (an obsessed zealot worrying/fantasizing about "sinners"), although it seems less and less like a caricature. There is not as much concern raised over a man's access to a vasectomy. Even if fundamentalists are successful in banning birth control, couples may still opt for vasectomies in order to avoid pregnancy. Another point against the GOP is that a lot of Congress members sneak in government funding for Viagra in unrelated bills (due to company lobbyists) without so much as a right-wing outrage on Fox News.

One possible reason is that a vasectomy is more expensive and an invasive surgical procedure. Birth control pills are more widespread. In such a case, these GOP politicians and fundamentalist leaders are targeting the more common method of avoiding pregnancy.

Another reason could be that many male conservatives would react with umbrage at attempts to block access to vasectomies; they'd see it as an encroachment on their personal freedoms.

Another option I'm inclined towards is that American society (and other societies as well) are more hostile to the idea of sexually active females. Sexual behavior on the part of men is still seen as normal and part of a "boys will be boys attitude," while women who pursue sex (especially extramarital sex) are likelier to earn scorn for their behavior and seen as abnormal. The demand to block female forms of birth control may be a result of this mindset.

In regards to conservatives who block funding for birth control based upon grounds of government funding projects they find immoral, this position still does not take into consideration the other side of the fence: government funds for Viagra. Since Viagra is commonly used for sexual reasons (more so than birth control, which also prevents diseases and acts as a pain reliever for menstruation), it would only make sense to oppose this just as strongly as birth control pills.

I could be wrong, and guys like Santorum are just as angry about this, but I'm not hearing about it.

Tell me what you think!

[Elect G-Max]

The only kind of birth-control that American conservatives have a major issue with is abortion. Nobody in the GOP is trying to ban condoms or the pill.

So what are you going on about?

[EastCoastAmerican]

I didn't say in my post that they want an outright ban on condoms and the pill, only that they're hypocritical. The Religious Right preaches about how birth control will lead to irresponsibility and campaign against easy access to it, claiming that the entire point of marriage is to have children. But you don't hear a single peep out of them when men get vasectomies to avoid the threat of pregnancy, and they don't try to restrict this practice in any way.

[Elect G-Max]

Define "easy access". Are you talking about requiring health insurance to cover it? That's not about family-planning so much as economic sense. They also might not be sufficiently familiar with science (big shock there) to know what a vasectomy is.

[EastCoastAmerican]

Planned Parenthood is a cheap and effective provider of birth control and sex education. Its policies are very useful for women who wish to avoid unplanned pregnancies, especially in low-income communities. And the GOP wants to shut them all down.

[joeylyrics]

I always though the "Three Strike" rule would've made a good example.
After a woman's third abortion... she either has the choice of getting her tubes tied OR spending a year in a work related prison where she replaces the hands of Two immigrant workers.
Now that's what I call solving two problems at once as well as being a win-win for everyone.
I STRONGLY believe that those who force women into keeping their child/children need to either pay for EVERY EXPENSE or just keep their big mouths shut all together.
I believe minding your own business as well as keeping your own nasty business to yourself is the key to a more peaceful tomorrow.

[Rei Murasame]

Why do you want to enslave women who have more than two abortions, Joey? Isn't that ridiculous?

[joeylyrics]

Why do you want to enslave women who have more than two abortions, Joey? Isn't that ridiculous?

Rei...



First... it would give the sluts, whores or anyone else who isn't careful enough something to think about other than
not worrying about it at all.
Second... the harsh penalties for not being RESPONSIBLE should have its consequences for those who do seem to rather learn the hard way.
What would you rather have?...
Either being able to have three chances OR... NONE AT All.
If this could shut the abortion cry babies up once and for all...
That alone should be plus enough.

[Rei Murasame]

You could just not put a limitation at all. That would be much easier for everyone.

[Figlio di Moros]

Vasectomies prohibit the fertilization of the egg, they do not "kill" an inseminated one. Only Catholics could argue against it.

[joeylyrics]

You could just not put a limitation at all. That would be much easier for everyone.

Rei...

I never remember it ever having a limit here in America.
Maybe that's what started all the static to begin with.
Besides... why give those "for life" loons any other reason to bitch?
A happy medium could very easily lesson such tension between both sides...
Besides... isn't a peaceful and respectful planet worth becoming civilized for?
I certainly seem to think it is.
Most however don't or just won't.
That alone is the main reason to why things will continue to fall apart and hopes, dreams and hearts will continue to be broken.
Change that then everything else falls into place.
Do Nothing... than an out of control society is what's left to contend with.

[Rei Murasame]

Besides... why give those "for life" loons any other reason to bitch?

If they are already bitching then why make concession to people who are going to bitch no matter what you do? It's almost like you are trying to look for reasons to enslave women in camps, and then giving yourself and 'out' where you can say, "the pro-lifers made me do it in a compromise".

No, you just don't have the backbone to stand behind your own ideas 100%, and that's really one of the biggest problems in society today.

Either you should support abortion 100%, or get out of the way and stop obstructing the field.

Besides... isn't a peaceful and respectful planet worth becoming civilized for?

When I talk about war, what I'm actually talking about is peace. For there to be peace, someone has to win. Just accept it.

It's almost like you compromisers don't know how to do politics. You just want to yell "please don't hurt me", as the pro-life goons march all over your face.

That alone is the main reason to why things will continue to fall apart and hopes, dreams and hearts will continue to be broken.

I don't care about the hopes and dreams of pro-life people, because they are wrong and should be steamrolled.

[joeylyrics]

Rei...

For every problem... there is a reasonable solution.
In order to achieve such a happy medium, BOTH sides need to give up a little something regardless if they like it or not.
I am not for enslaving anyone... but if three chances of being a responsible human being isn't enough... then maybe a long year in an un-paid work program may get them to start thinking otherwise.

You Rei seem to have a serious problem with authority as well as any reasonable ideas for a better and brighter tomorrow.
Running amuck and doing whatever we damn well please is not the answer to fixing anything.
It's more of a poor excuse for the selfish and lazy who would stop at nothing to continue to do nothing but rebel against those who not only know better... but want to make things better.
Maybe when you grow out of your child minded twenties and become more of an adult for yourself... you may finally come to realize I've been right about everything all along.
Deep down I know you know I am right.
Maybe one day you'll just come on out and admit it.
I ain't holding my breath though since it does take a lot of strength and courage for one to finally come out and admit they've been wrong all along.

[Rei Murasame]

For every problem... there is a reasonable solution.

Indeed.

In order to achieve such a happy medium, BOTH sides need to give up a little something regardless if they like it or not.

No, one side can just trample the other side and make them bow their head and kowtow and submit, like a vassal who did not show its master the appropriate deference previously.

You Rei seem to have a serious problem with authority as well as any reasonable ideas for a better and brighter tomorrow.

I have a problem with people who won't respect our authoritah, when science and common sense are both on the side of those who favour abortion.

[joeylyrics]

Rei...


Abortion should remain the right of the woman who had either carelessly or accidentally gotten herself pregnant.
Pro lifers will never see it that way unless they too had to get one for themselves.
If a woman refuses to be responsible and if three abortions to them doesn't seem like enough... than they DESERVE to either have their tubes mandatorally tied or be imprisoned for community work detail for at least a year.
I asked you before and I'll ask you again...
Would you rather have three chances OR... NONE AT All?
Besides... too many abortions isn't good for one's body, mind, soul and dignity.

[Rei Murasame]

I'd rather have an infinite number of chances, so I reject your false dichotomy and your policy of compromising with the opposition.

It's really that simple.

[Rei Murasame]

"An Infinite Number of Chances" was NOT on the ballot form in my example.

Indeed, but I don't believe in using any ballot form that I don't have control of. The only time I'm ticking a ballot form is if it has an option that is placed there by a party which I actually support. Otherwise, no game.

Besides, power doesn't come from ballot boxes, it comes from economic power, and the ability to cause or alleviate scarcity, and the ability to use violence or the threat or mere suggestion of credible application of violence.

Although... if it came down to really having to vote between getting three chances or none at all...

Not even joking. If it came to a situation where you lot are presiding over rape-panels staffed by Christian clergy who have the power to send people to slave camps, I would indeed join whatever armed resistance group is forming up in such a scenario, and I would kill people if necessary with no guilt or remorse whatsoever.

[Figlio di Moros]

Although... if it came down to really having to vote between getting three chances or none at all...

So long as an IUD is free, serial abortion should not be an option.

[Rei Murasame]

Why not? Are you claiming that you can predict what is going to happen to every woman? Even if no one ever had more than 2 abortions, in Joey's scenario there is basically a rape-panel of some sort, staffed by Christian clergy or Christinan-esque groups, which would have the power to send women to slave camps.

I wouldn't be waiting to find out what will or won't happen, since the mere fact of such a law existing, would mean that we have entered a Christian Theocracy, and I'd certainly be willing to risk my life and join any resistance group that is willing to potentially kill large numbers of people in order to bring down such a system.

Someone would end up in slave camps, but it won't be the loyal people of this nation. It would be clergy, the traitors that they are, who would die in the camps that they themselves had designed, because I would advocate turning them into death camps after the scenario finishes playing out, and by that time I am sure I'd not be alone in advocating that.

[Figlio di Moros]

Rei, I'm not above telling women what to do with their bodies, and can't for the life of me see why any good fascist, yourself included, would be. Yes, allow termination of pregnancies- but I fail to see how serial abortion is productive. Three strikes, insert IUD, and move the fuck on.