[Rainbow Crow]

What has always confused me about Conservatism is that it is usually very pro-organized religion, in the west this has meant publicly espousing the virtues of Christianity.

The strange part about that, is that Jesus Christ was very critical of the wealthy, suggesting that they would go to purgatory/hell solely for being wealthy, and encouraged the wealthy to give their wealth away as a means of saving their souls. Giving away your wealth and entering the clergy was not completely unheard of in previous eras, for the above stated reasons.

But in modern times, conservatives continue to espouse the virtues of Christianity, yet are just as supportive of allowing people to keep their own personal wealth. Has anyone ever provided an explanation for why this is?

[Godstud]

You need to see a movie(documentary) called The Corporation. They discuss quite a lot how they linked capitalism to religion, even so far as to say Jesus was a capitalist, despite that being quite obviously not the case.

Here is part 1/23
[youtube]Pin8fbdGV9Y[/youtube]

[Fraqtive42]

Has anyone ever provided an explanation for why this is?

Nope. This is one of the problems that I see with conservative Christians, too. They seem to cherry-pick socially authoritarian policies from the Bible (e.g. homosexuality is a sin, etc.) but leave the rest untouched. The laissez-faire economic system that they support is, at least in my opinion, completely at odds with the anti-wealth teachings of Jesus. They often value the pursuit of wealth at the obvious expense of others under the guise of 'personal responsibility'.

Also, many of them might think that they can cite their neoliberalism with the teachings of the Bible, demonstrated by T-shirts such as "Jesus was anti-tax". In reality, he wasn't.

[Grognonours]

The really strange part is that not all conservatives or Christians are wealthy, or even rich for that matter so I am not sure what you are talking about. Also there are liberals who attend church and consider themselves to be Christians just as much as anyone else. If this thread is meant to bash Christians and/or conservatives then by all means please continue. I can use good laugh.

[Fraqtive42]

The really strange part is that not all conservatives or Christians are wealthy, or even rich for that matter so I am not sure what you are talking about. Also there are liberals who attend church and consider themselves to be Christians just as much as anyone else. If this thread is meant to bash Christians and/or conservatives then by all means please continue. I can use good laugh.

The point of this thread isn't to bash conservatives or Christians. The point is to discuss the discrepancies between Christianity and laissez-faire economics that conservatives support (along with supporting Christian values). I have no problem with Christianity, or conservatism for that matter. It just seems silly to me when they talk about how pro-rich Jesus was, when in reality he wasn't.

[Daktoria]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic

BP, I'd also suggest you read this:

http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tse ... ainstr.htm

Catholicism has a strong allegiance with diligent working class immigrant populations whether Irish, Italian, or Hispanic.

[Rainbow Crow]

The thread is to ask the question stated in the first post Not any other questions.

[Grognonours]

It just seems silly to me when they talk about how pro-rich Jesus was, when in reality he wasn't.

I don't know anyone who talks about Jesus being pro-rich. Also, the virtues of Christianity as far as I can tell do not mention wealth or the lack of it. It is possible that a certain issue in the Bible is being used to attempt to push an agenda. The virtues of Christianity are prudence, justice, restraint, temperance, courage, faith, hope and love. This list is fromn Wikipedia so you may not accept it though. It is also from the Catholic church which may be another sticking point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Virtues

[Daktoria]

The thread is to ask the question stated in the first post :) Not any other questions.

Aren't you asking about the connection between free markets and religion in American politics?

What do you think conservatism is? Without social value exposure and practice, conservatism doesn't expect people to assimilate. This is especially applicable to immigrants who are proving they're members of the community and don't want to look like leeches, so religion is a viable institution.

That said, I referred you to the Protestant Work Ethic to also explain Evangelical loyalty among natives.

[Godstud]

Also, the virtues of Christianity as far as I can tell do not mention wealth or the lack of it.

Right...

“I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19:23-24

[Rich]

44 And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45 And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need.

Acts 4:32: Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common.

The Bible is crystal clear, those who had lived with Jesus believed he had instructed them to live in complete Communism. Anyone who says that Jesus approved of private property is a liar, a dissembler, a follower of Satan. The Catholic monks and the early Puritan settlers of New England understood and followed this Communist practice. They had the Communist work ethic of serving others. Later lazy good for nothing terrorist scum like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson thought it would be more fun to live off the sweat and blood of slaves.

[Fraqtive42]

Also, the virtues of Christianity as far as I can tell do not mention wealth or the lack of it.

They do, and Godstud accurately referred you to the appropriate Bible verses. Of course I don't pretend that we can simply abandon all wealth because Jesus was against it, and I wouldn't support that. What does bother me, however, is when conservatives will bring up what Jesus wanted when talking about economics. Especially those conservatives seeking to apply the Christian morality to public policy.

[Grognonours]

Right...

So glad you agree with me, gs. But I don't know what your Bible quote is referencing.

Of course I don't pretend that we can simply abandon all wealth because Jesus was against it, and I wouldn't support that. What does bother me, however, is when conservatives will bring up what Jesus wanted when talking about economics

Do you have any quotes that can be discussed?

[Rainbow Crow]

I smell a troll

Those are good quotes though.

[Fraqtive42]

Do you have any quotes that can be discussed?

I'm not exactly sure of the problem that you have with Godstud's quote. It was in reference to Jesus asking a rich man to give away everything that he had to the poor. Then the man walked away, disappointed, and Jesus subsequently told this to his disciples.

[Grognonours]

I'm not exactly sure of the problem that you have with Godstud's quote. It was in reference to Jesus asking a rich man to give away everything that he had to the poor. Then the man walked away, disappointed, and Jesus subsequently told this to his disciples.

I have no problem with his quote but it has nothing to do with the topic. I listed the virtues of Christianity and that has been ignored and instead what appears to be a strawman is created. So it appears that some posters want to ignore what virtues are and create their own that can easily be used to tear down their idea of what a Christian and/or conservative is. Blue Puppy says he smells a troll and he may be right because I can see it in certain posts.

[Rainbow Crow]

I was referring to you. Listing the "virtues of Christianity" while leaving out (without explanation) what Jesus was apparently advocating for very strongly, that people shoud give all of their wealth away to the needy, is exacty the kind of behavior for which I'm seeking an explanation.

You seem to think that your Wikipedia link makes all of the scriptures people have been quoting irrelevant to the discussion?

[Fraqtive42]

I have no problem with his quote but it has nothing to do with the topic. I listed the virtues of Christianity and that has been ignored and instead what appears to be a strawman is created. So it appears that some posters want to ignore what virtues are and create their own that can easily be used to tear down their idea of what a Christian and/or conservative is.

Yes, you have listed the virtues of Christianity. Now, two things:

• How does that pertain to discrediting the quote that has been given?
• How is the quote unrelated to the topic?

Blue Puppy says he smells a troll and he may be right because I can see it in certain posts.

I have never trolled once in my history on this forum, because trolling is a fool's game.

[septimine]

44 And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45 And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need.

Acts 4:32: Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common.
The Bible is crystal clear, those who had lived with Jesus believed he had instructed them to live in complete Communism. Anyone who says that Jesus approved of private property is a liar, a dissembler, a follower of Satan. The Catholic monks and the early Puritan settlers of New England understood and followed this Communist practice. They had the Communist work ethic of serving others. Later lazy good for nothing terrorist scum like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson thought it would be more fun to live off the sweat and blood of slaves.

ter of not
The reason that the early church was "communist" was that it was underground. You can't build huge cathederals when the romans are arresting everyone in sight and feeding them to lions. And as for the pilgrims it was mostly a matter of not having enough time to build a colony before the first winter.

[a contra]

The relationship between the two is arbitrary at best - more to do with socio-economic background rather than any strong theological links.