[Spin]

Napoleon was defeated by an English/Dutch/Prussian coalition led by an english general.
Around 30% of the troops were british, the 70% left was composed of german, dutch and belgian troops.

The Prussain troops did not arrive until late on in the battle however without them it is likely that Napoleon would have one.

From all accounts Napoleon at waterloo was not the great general who won Austerlitz. The battle of Waterloo was relatively unimportant as regards to who won as a russian/austrian army was only a few days march from Napoleon.

[Fernando]

The reason for Spain's spectacular rise ca. 1500-1520 and its humiliating defeat by the English in 1588 was American Gold. The Spanish economy was too dependent on it. So, when English, French, and Dutch pirates seized the massive treasure ships in the Caribbean and elsewhere, the Spanish economy would shudder. This dependence became so bad that when the treasure fleet of 1622 (the Atocha) was wiped out in a hurricane, the Spanish government went bankrupt.

I agree with Captain Hat. Anyway, remember that Spanish conquest of Mexico did not come until 1519. So, arrival of major amounts of gold could not support the rise of Spain at the beginning of the century. Before it, Spain had the hegemony over Italy and a sound economy based in Castilian sheeps and Aragonese trade in the Mediterranean Sea. It had descovered America, completed Spanish Reconquista in Granada (as Ossama knows), take over Navarra and conquered some strongpoints in North Africa.

It is true that American gold spurred Spanish ambitions and did very little to improve Spanish economy.

At the middle of the century Spain was fighting against:

- Turkey (a major power which had arrived to Vienna).

- France

- An anti-terrorist war against England.

- Netherlands.

- Protestant Germany.

- Completing American conquest as well as Philippines.

Too much work for the resources of any country.

[Comrade Osnowski]

I've heard that Spain was still living off Aztec gold reserves until the 50's....always thought that was amazing, like winning the colonial lottery really

[Comrade Ogilvy]

I think you any study here should at least touch on the dutch (for the latter part of the 16th Century)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Provinces

Portugal were obviously a key player here too and were stronger than the spanish, since their explorations were economically motivated, not catholic conversion motivated.

CR Boxer has written two books, the former less useful since its time period is 1600-1800, however both on the Dutch and the Portugese are very good.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... s&n=507846

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... s&n=507846

You would be better getting both of them from a second hand book dealer, such as www.abebooks.com

[Comrade Ogilvy]

This is a useful list too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wa ... d_Shot_era

[Fernando]

Portugal were obviously a key player here too and were stronger than the spanish, since their explorations were economically motivated, not catholic conversion motivated.

Thank you for PaulDuran's contributions. You are right. Portugal was a big power. I would't say "stronger" or less strong.They began before and sailed around Africa, redescovered India and reached Japan, while Spaniards descovered and conquered America and the Philippines. The first sailing across the world was a "joint venture": money was Spanish, the captain was a Portuguese (Magallanes=Portuguese Magalhaes) and after his death the expedition was completed by an Spaniard (Elcano).

I must diagree in the motivations of the explorations. Spanish and Portuguese explorations had both economic and religious reasons. The importance given to one reason or other by the two iberic countries was a matter of nuance.

You are possibly right Portugal had their clearer economic reasons but you must consider that Portugal never had the possibility to take over lands. When thay had (Brasil in XVI, Mozambique & Angola in XIX) they converted the native population. Those countries are Roman Catholic nowadays. Regarding Spain I would like to say that Spanish colonization was aimed to convert peoples to Christianity, but we must admit that the main aim of individual "conquerors" was gold and lands, being "evangelization" a secondly matter. Convertion was an officialy supported aim.

[Fernando]

I've heard that Spain was still living off Aztec gold reserves until the 50's....always thought that was amazing, like winning the colonial lottery really

I hope you refer to 1550's. My father was born in 1920 and he never told me nothing about that gold!

Sadly, I have to say that gold run out in XVII century because of military spending and was a major reason to explain why Spain didn't develop an industry until XX century. Spanish (and American) cathedrals was the only thing Spain has retained from the gold.

Gold (and silver afterwards) was our petroleum. I don't give a cent for Arabic economies when oil is over.

[McPherson]

gold run out in XVII century because of military spending

Yes. All the gold which came from America went directly to bank corporations in northern Europe, in order to pay the costly war against the Netherlands (Spanish XVI army was mostly composed by german and swiss mercenaries). Very few of this gold came finally to Spain, and so the country stayed quite undeveloped.

The reasons of the fall of the Spanish Empire are the bad kings, in my opinion. The conquest and management of the american territories was more or less succesful, but the european policy was a disaster. We lost wads of resources in religious wars against many countries in Europe. We didn´t manage to defeat the terrorist nest of England, and we never reached a good alliance with France. Politic isolation, and poverty finally caused the fall. In the following centuries (XVIII and XIX), internal fights and even dumber kings (Fernando VII, greatest dumb in history), finished the Empire.

I wouldn´t advise you to read the Bartolomé de las Casas´book, it´s full of lies and heavily influenced by the british Black Legend. Even more, no topic in history has been manipulated more than the American Conquest.

[Captain Hat]

In essence, the Spanish invented the concept of credit. The Spanish government would borrow money from the merchants of Genoa, Venice, Belgium, and until the later 16th Century, Holland. This money was borrowed on the grounds that as soon as the treasure fleet came in, the Italians, Belgians, Dutch, etc. would get their cut. All this borrowing was based on the Spaniards good credit to get their ships safely into port.