- 20 Mar 2006 16:29
#833891
No problem. It's been good for me too to revisit this material.
Identifying the specific tribes is difficult as there were literally probably hundreds. It was other, outside groups that forged the large state structures of the Balkans i.e. the partially Alanic and Sarmatian Croats and Serbs and the Turkic Bulgars. The lone exception is Karantinia, the medieval precursor of Slovenia that occupied Slovenia and most of Austria, but that has a totally different historical background. Slavic settlement extended across most of the whole penninsula but linguistic supremacy only survived in those areas where slavic state organization developed; the Croatian and Serbian kingdoms, and the Bulgarian empire.
The territory of Dacia was part of the First Bulgarian empire and had a significant slavic admixture but was a more peripheral area of Balkan slav settlement. It would eventually fall to the Turkic Cumans and then reorganized into the Romanian states of Wallachia and Moldavia, but the slavic element remains in linguistic form. Although the Romanians are a Romance speaking people, a tremendous percentage of their vocabulary (some 20%) is Slavic in origin, including their word for yes, 'da'.
I think the two phenomena were probably independent of each other. Slavic expansion south and west, as well as east happened fairly simultaneously and it seems unlikely that slavic groups from eastern Germany would go to the Balkans rather than to Poland or Bohemia, especially as by 983 the Magyars have already conquered Pannonia and cut the South Slavs off from the others. That doesn't mean that slavs wouldn't have migrated into Pannonia as the Hungarian kingdom that was developing was severely underpopulated and excepted migrants wherever they could get them, but there isn't any great incentive that I see for them to travel all that way south.
I'll check it out, though if they were only a remnant it's probably most likely that they would still be absorbed into the various Slavic and Baltic populations surrounding them in the given scenario.
WHERE IS THE FIGHTING MAN? AM I HE?
Its the ability to correct odd/misunderstood ideas that I always liked about "What ifs". So, thanks for the corrections.
No problem. It's been good for me too to revisit this material.
If the first wave was 6th C., then which Slavic group moved into and mixed with the locals of Dacia?
Identifying the specific tribes is difficult as there were literally probably hundreds. It was other, outside groups that forged the large state structures of the Balkans i.e. the partially Alanic and Sarmatian Croats and Serbs and the Turkic Bulgars. The lone exception is Karantinia, the medieval precursor of Slovenia that occupied Slovenia and most of Austria, but that has a totally different historical background. Slavic settlement extended across most of the whole penninsula but linguistic supremacy only survived in those areas where slavic state organization developed; the Croatian and Serbian kingdoms, and the Bulgarian empire.
The territory of Dacia was part of the First Bulgarian empire and had a significant slavic admixture but was a more peripheral area of Balkan slav settlement. It would eventually fall to the Turkic Cumans and then reorganized into the Romanian states of Wallachia and Moldavia, but the slavic element remains in linguistic form. Although the Romanians are a Romance speaking people, a tremendous percentage of their vocabulary (some 20%) is Slavic in origin, including their word for yes, 'da'.
The great slavic uprising, and subsequent reconquest struck me as a peak and then end of the migration of Slavs from E. Germany to the Balkans.
I think the two phenomena were probably independent of each other. Slavic expansion south and west, as well as east happened fairly simultaneously and it seems unlikely that slavic groups from eastern Germany would go to the Balkans rather than to Poland or Bohemia, especially as by 983 the Magyars have already conquered Pannonia and cut the South Slavs off from the others. That doesn't mean that slavs wouldn't have migrated into Pannonia as the Hungarian kingdom that was developing was severely underpopulated and excepted migrants wherever they could get them, but there isn't any great incentive that I see for them to travel all that way south.
As for the Goths in Poland, Ive read about it here and there for a while, just google it if you want a source or two. 9th C. was (more or less) the end of the Goths in Poland, as many of them had left earlier and the remainder was being absorbed into other local groups.
I'll check it out, though if they were only a remnant it's probably most likely that they would still be absorbed into the various Slavic and Baltic populations surrounding them in the given scenario.
WHERE IS THE FIGHTING MAN? AM I HE?
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