[Childlike Complexion]

My sister and my brother in law went to Italy just a couple of weeks ago. They had a gift for me... A Mussolini statue.. I thought this was insteresting, but a couple of days later, I remember reading a magazine about a Mussolini wine which was relatively popular in Italy. They also had a wine dedicated to Hitler. So I was wondering if Italians in general have a more moderate, or perhaps pleasing rememberance of Hitler and Mussolini.

[glinert]

There two golden rules of history...

1)Never make generalizations.
2)Italy will always lose

Italy has lost every war since their invoking. Mussolini was joke but it bad taste to have HItler wine.

[Russkie]

some people see it as a funny joke.

In Russia we have toys of lenin and stalin and communist T-shirts with propaganda being sold everywhere.

[Boondock Saint]

2)Italy will always lose

Oh lord ...

You know, people think Americans and the French have a love-hate relationship ... but you should hear Americans talk about Italy. At least Americans who recall WWII history anyway ... I dont even think most of my fellows even know Italy was on the 'wrong' side.

I have heard about this wine before. Its nothing new. I have also heard of a bar somewhere in south-east asia dedicated to the nazi party. They have swatzikas and pictures of Hitler and Goering and so on all over. Its not that they are nazis themselves ... its just that in their part of the world the nazis werent really the bad guys ... that was the Japanese.

I have no problem with this wine, its their business not mine.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Italians are not interesting in war Boondock. They are much more interested in wine and spaggetti. Christianity ruined the warrior Romans.

[Liberal]

Well, they started to loose after the re-unification of the country...Hmmm, no, they lost many battles and watrs even as Roman empire.

2) Italy will always lose

Yes, you are right

[Spin]

"I declare war...o shit theyve got guns"

but you should hear Americans talk about Italy. At least Americans who recall WWII history anyway

Yea most brits just about know "Hitler was a right bastard"

[TROI]

There two golden rules of history...

1)Never make generalizations.
2)Italy will always lose

Post of the day!

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Well, the Romans won against, Carthage and the punic wars and so on.... Rome was the biggest empire in the world.... but italy never wins in wars.

[Boris]

Well, the Romans won against, Carthage and the punic wars and so on.... Rome was the biggest empire in the world.... but italy never wins in wars.

If you think about it...Italy was defeated by its own city. It wasn't the Italian empire, twas the Roman..

[Fernando]

I can't agree with Glinert. As someone said "Italy always enter in the wars in the losing side but ends in the winning side". See WWI and II.

Turning to the main rail:

So I was wondering if Italians in general have a more moderate, or perhaps pleasing rememberance of Hitler and Mussolini.

I think current Italians have a horrid perception of Hitler but, since Mussolini was not a so-absolute-monster as Hitler, there are a more positive vision of him and his regime. One party in the current ruling coalition is the heir of an almost-fascist party which remembered Mussolini and had a kin of Mussolini as a dirigent.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Actually the opinion on, Mussolini is very different in the north near switzerland because of how mussolini destroyed so much land just to try and prevent the, mosquitoes from eating crops.... He did more damage to the land than the mosquitoes could and didn't totally eliminate the problems of malaria. But anyways northern, Italy has alot of anarchists and alot of the farmers really don't like, Mussolini (Especially in the north).

[Spin]

I can't agree with Glinert. As someone said "Italy always enter in the wars in the losing side but ends in the winning side". See WWI and II.

Italy started off supporting the Germans (but not militarily) then ended up on the allies side.

[Garibaldi]

There two golden rules of history...

1)Never make generalizations.
2)Italy will always lose

What about WWI? Italy won that war, although the didn't do much. But at any rate, you could say the same thing aobut the Germans, they have a worse track record than the Italians. Anybody that knows history knows that both were strong nations that just ended up in unlucky situations.

As for WWII, the only reason Italy was weak was because of Mussillini. Would've been better off if he just handed power over to the mob.

[Garibaldi]

If you think about it...Italy was defeated by its own city. It wasn't the Italian empire, twas the Roman..

True, it was called the Roman Empire, but by the Pax Romana almost every Italian was known as a Roman Citizen. Even if their ancestry wasn't in Rome, they were still citizens of Rome.

[glinert]

Italy surrendered in about three seconds and killed there own leaders. You could not defeat Ethiopia without major battle. You Italians defeating Croatia until they actually picked up guns.

[Vassili Zaitsev]

Gimme a break, Italy hasn't been a super power since it was the Roman Republic/Empire.

And don't get me started about France. Everyone knows France hasn't been a super power since that migit Napolian ruled their country.

[Garibaldi]

Italy united hasn't been much, no, but before it was united it housed several important city-states, such as Florence or Venice. In fact, if Venice had exerted it's dominace and conquered Northern Italy when it had the chance, I doubt Western Europe would've become the leaders of industry. Christopher Columbus could've stayed in Italy and funded his journey privatly.

[Boris]

Gimme a break, Italy hasn't been a super power since it was the Roman Republic/Empire.

And don't get me started about France. Everyone knows France hasn't been a super power since that midget Napoleon ruled Europe.

Try getting at least his name right next time...

[Fimbulwinter]

some people see it as a funny joke.

In Russia we have toys of lenin and stalin and communist T-shirts with propaganda being sold everywhere.

Yes, whenever I go to St.Petersburg by train (beautiful city by the way), which is about every weekend if its not Estonia, I HAVE to buy those cool T-shirts, also all of the Red Army militaria, its a rip off on the internet, so I get it from the main source.