Bush and Cheney - worst ever! - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#1735786
So the party is almost over. Were Bush and Cheney the worst US President/Vice-president double act ever?

Here are some (partisan) views...

September 13, 2008

Is George W. Bush the Worst President in US History?

by Ivan Eland

In the twilight of his eight-year term, George W. Bush is the loneliest guy in town these days. Remember him? With the economy in the tank, the Iraq War dragging on with casualties at 2004 levels (which we were all horrified about back then), Bush's popularity is in the cellar and holding. Republican presidential candidate John McCain is running away from him faster than an Alaskan snow machine. The media has all but forgotten him, as it covers what the two aspirants to replace him have for breakfast, lunch, and dinner each day.

But historians will not forget him and the few journalists who are still paying attention to him are asking if he is the worst president in history. Although hard to believe, the answer is probably no.

True, Bush has failed to catch or kill Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, the al-Qaeda leaders who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks, because he got diverted into occupying two Muslim countries in which they are unlikely to be hanging out. Although such occupations ("nation-building" if a Democratic president were doing it) are billed as a necessary part of the "War on Terror," they have merely inflamed Islamic radicals around the world and increased their terrorist attacks. Maybe even more important, Bush's War on Terror has also undermined the cherished American system of government by unconstitutionally suspending habeas corpus; enhancing government surveillance of the American public, including unconstitutional spying without court-reviewed warrants; practicing torture; and distorting the constitutional checks and balances by expanding the authority of the already imperial presidency. Yet it could be argued that several other presidents have done worse things.

Although Bush lied us into a war, many presidents have done that, and he appeared to have at least some vague conception that it was in U.S. security interests to do so (even if safeguarding U.S. oil supplies was the real reason). In 1846, President James Polk lied to Congress in starting a war with the much weaker Mexico just to blatantly grab huge amounts of its land – the American Southwest, including California.

In 1898, President William McKinley attacked the frail Spanish Empire to grab its colonies of Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines. He annexed Hawaii to boot. Strangely, the Filipinos were not so grateful about their "liberation" from Spain. They started a guerrilla war when they found out that instead of gaining their independence, they were going to become the anti-colonial United States' first colony. In the U.S. repression of the insurgency in the Philippine islands, about 200,000 Filipinos died from torture, atrocities, combat, starvation, and disease. The Spanish-American War made the U.S. a military power and began the long quest for a U.S. overseas empire. The war also allowed McKinley to become the first modern president – that is, permanently expanding the president's powers (vis-à-vis the other branches of government) past what the nation's founders and the Constitution had ever envisioned.

In making the world safe for war, autocracy, and colonialism, President Woodrow Wilson helped ensure that the 20th century was the bloodiest in human history. Although the late U.S. entry into World War I tipped the balance in favor of the allies, Wilson frittered away his negotiating power in the post-war peace conference by allowing the British and the French to impose a harsh peace on the defeated Germany in order to get their support for his feckless League of Nations. The allies' grinding Germany's nose in the dirt brought Hitler to power and caused World War II. Wilson also paid the Provisional Government in Russia to stay in the bloody World War I, thus causing the revolution that brought the antiwar Bolshevik party to power. Wilson then sent U.S. troops to try to defeat the Bolsheviks in the Russian civil war, which contributed to the suspicions that caused the eventual Cold War with the Soviet Union. Wilson, the most interventionist president in U.S. history, also conducted many military interventions in Latin America, mostly to help U.S. business interests. He also was the first president ever to mobilize the entire U.S. economy for war and was thus the father of permanent big government. Wilson's violations of civil liberties during World War I were the worst in U.S. history and make Bush's look fairly mild.

Although the United States went back to its wise traditional foreign policy of military restraint during the interwar period, Harry Truman brought back Wilsonian interventionism permanently after World War II. Truman set very bad precedents by purposefully bombing to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians in World War II and the Korean War; unconstitutionally fighting the Korean War without a formal declaration; creating the military-industrial-complex that led to the first large permanent peacetime army in U.S. history; expanding his powers as commander in chief by attempting to seize private steel mills; and establishing the current informal U.S. empire of overseas alliances and military bases, foreign aid, and profligate U.S. military interventions to police that realm. In other words, Truman permanently buried the traditional U.S. foreign policy of military restraint.

Make no mistake. George W. Bush has been a horrible president and is one of the worst in U.S. history. But of the 42 men who have served as president, these four men – Polk, McKinley, Wilson, and Truman – were probably worse.

source

Wikipedia

From Paul Steinhauser
CNN Deputy Political Director



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A new national poll suggests that almost a quarter of Americans think that Dick Cheney is the worst vice president in American history.



Vice President Dick Cheney says he's comfortable with his accomplishments and isn't troubled by his ratings.

Twenty-three percent of those questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Monday say that Cheney is the country's worst vice president, when compared with his predecessors.

An additional 41 percent feel that Cheney is a poor vice president, with 34 percent rating him a good number two.

Only one percent of those polled say that Cheney is the best vice president in U.S. history.

"On the Sunday talk shows, Cheney took on the job of making the affirmative case for the Bush legacy," said Keating Holland, CNN polling director. "But the messenger may be getting in the way of the message."

Cheney steps down as vice president January 20. He will be succeeded by Vice President-elect Joe Biden.

Although extremely unpopular, Cheney will leave office as one of the most powerful vice presidents in history. He played a crucial role in many of the Bush administration's crucial policies and was a major proponent of using and expanding executive powers.

In an interview Sunday, Cheney said he was not troubled by polls suggesting he was unpopular.

"I'm very comfortable with where we are and what we achieved substantively. And frankly, I would not want to be one of those guys who spends all his time reading the polls. I think people like that shouldn't serve in these jobs," Cheney said on "Fox News Sunday."

The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll was conducted Friday through Sunday, with 1,013 adult Americans questioned by telephone. The survey's sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points.

CNN
User avatar
By Hi-Def
#1735792
I'll admit, I got suckered into voting for Bush in 2004. It was my first presidential election. It was one of the worst mistakes I ever made politically. On just about every subject I cared about, the Bush administration swerved away from good sense and into oncoming traffic. It's a good thing the Republicans will be the wilderness for a while.
By votingblockhead
#1735921
They definitely make the top five list.

But Obama's inauguration isn't for another month. That gives Bush/Cheney time to make amends for all they've done wrong. As a former baseball owner, Bush knows a team can turn things around.

George, yes you can! :p
By savemysanityplease
#1735978
Perhaps future historians will mark the end of the United States as a first rate power coincident with the Bush presidency. From George Washington to G "W", the beginning and the end. Of course "W" was not the cause of our decline, he was just the visible symptom of deep disease, like a big ugly tumor that's discovered after the the cancer has already reached stage 5.
By canadiancapitalist
#1736093
No absolutely not. In the 20th century alone, FDR, Wilson and LBJ were worse presidents. JFK probably would have been, had he lived long enough for us to find out.
User avatar
By Dave
#1736136
Dumb Article wrote:Make no mistake. George W. Bush has been a horrible president and is one of the worst in U.S. history. But of the 42 men who have served as president, these four men – Polk, McKinley, Wilson, and Truman – were probably worse.

I'm amazed to find a mainstream publication condemn Wilson and Truman, both of whom were awful Presidents. But Polk and McKinley? They were great Presidents! Polk got us most of the Oregon Territory and the Mexican Cession in a quick, successful war. Getting us the Southwest makes you a bad President?! As for McKinley, during his Administration the US economy expanded at 7% annually with deflation (not that he can take credit for this exactly, but he did preside over it) and we routed Spain. I should note that despite much hand-wringing over imperialism, under our rule the Philippines became the wealthiest country in Asia behind Japan.

I would say that Wilson, FDR, and LBJ were worse than Bush. However, they presided over a time when America's fundamentals were sound (but laid the groundwork for our demise), whereas Bush presides in an era where our country is increasingly a basket case. Thus, by comparison, he definitely appears worse.
User avatar
By Potemkin
#1736142
I'm amazed to find a mainstream publication condemn Wilson and Truman, both of whom were awful Presidents. But Polk and McKinley? They were great Presidents! Polk got us most of the Oregon Territory and the Mexican Cession in a quick, successful war. Getting us the Southwest makes you a bad President?!

It does if you're a moralistic bourgeois liberal. Remember, he lied to Congress! Lied, I tell you! :eek:

But seriously, Bush is not the worst president, not by a long way. He's a smirking, incompetent fool, but there have been far worse presidents than him. Dave has already mentioned a few.
User avatar
By Oxymoron
#1736143
More partisan hackery thanks.

My opinion of Bush is mixed:

Positives:
* He kept the nation safe after 9/11.
* He put alot of money into education and overall the system has shown better results.
* Waged 2 succesful Military operations and took out 2 Enemy regimes, closing terror bases in Afghanistan, and preemting Saddams involvement in future terror plots against the US.
* Pushed forward Patriot act that helped defend this nation for years to come.
* Put in 2 Great supreme court justices
* Expanded NATO
* Showed courage in doing what was unpopular but nessacary


Negatives:
* Did not put enough resources to prevent 9/11
* Messed up occupation of both Iraq and Afghanistan
* Picked a terrible VP
* Handled Detainee situation in a very short sighted way
* Scandals in AG office
* Vallery Plane Fiasco
* Pardoning Scape Goat Libby
* Very bad at PR, bad speaker, Idiotic acts infront of cameras
* Too excesive Bravado

Overall he was an unexceptional President in Exceptional times, I give him a B-.
User avatar
By Dave
#1736211
Potemkin wrote:It does if you're a moralistic bourgeois liberal. Remember, he lied to Congress! Lied, I tell you!

It's not even at all certain Polk lied. At any rate, these freaking liberals are going to be the ruin of our civilization. Time for a communist-conservative alliance to crush them once and for all.
By Mercutio
#1736213
If HE'S not the worst ever, we're in deep doo-doo. We should hope he's the worst this country ever has to endure.

And by the way, has there ever been a prez and a vice-prez who had BOTH been arrested? Doubtful.
User avatar
By Todd D.
#1736289
He's not even the worst since 1979, but for very different reasons.

People that think he's the worst ever were almost certainly born after 1985.
By Mercutio
#1736300
Hardly. If Bush and Cheney had worked their magic in the 1970s they would've been in jail years ago. Back then, even Republicans had standards for their president.
By Grognonours
#1736315
If Bush and Cheney had worked their magic in the 1970s they would've been in jail years ago


So what do you think they did that is worthy of jail time? Did they disagree with your political agenda?
By Mercutio
#1736317
Their crimes make Nixon look like an amateur. But I understand there are people who aren't able to make comparisons like that because it would burst their political bubble.
User avatar
By Oxymoron
#1736327
Mercutio it is you who live in a political bubble.
By Mercutio
#1736330
I watched the Watergate hearings on tv as a 20 year old. How bout you?
By Grognonours
#1736343
Their crimes make Nixon look like an amateur


Then you should have no problem listing a few. Along with some proof. Or just one. Anything. Thanks.
User avatar
By Todd D.
#1736357
Hardly. If Bush and Cheney had worked their magic in the 1970s they would've been in jail years ago. Back then, even Republicans had standards for their president

Really? You think anything that Bush and Cheney has done compares to the Bay of Pigs? To Vietnam? Kent State?

Let me guess, born in the 80's? Only really paying attention for maybe the second Clinton term and now Bush's 8 years?

Yeah, that's what I thought.
By Mercutio
#1736360
Then you should have no problem listing a few. Along with some proof. Or just one. Anything. Thanks.

That's pointless, don'tcha think? All you'll do is dismiss them as non-crimes and then say, so what, they were never prosecuted. AmIright or amIright.

Check out "Worse than Watergate" a book about Bush/Cheney by John Dean, Watergate insider, and if you don't like it send him hate mail.
User avatar
By Oxymoron
#1736362
That's pointless, don'tcha think? All you'll do is dismiss them as non-crimes and then say, so what, they were never prosecuted. AmIright or amIright.


Nice deflection and avoiding the question.


Check out "Worse than Watergate" a book about Bush/Cheney by John Dean, Watergate insider, and if you don't like it send him hate mail


You mean a book designed to make money based on extravagant unproven claims?

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