[Dave]

Mercutio, please address my points about World War I. Or stop acting like Bush is the worst ever. Your choice.

Still waiting...

[Mercutio]

address my points about World War I.

Even if we were lied into that war, did Wilson ok torture too? There's a big long list of unprosecuted crimes that make Bush/Cheney the worst ever.

[canadiancapitalist]

A little waterboarding is what you are basing your analysis of his presidency on? Surely there are more important issues... like the totality of foreign and domestic policy perhaps?

[Oxymoron]

You can argue if he had the right or not but he didn't have a whole lot of choice. Every night we watched ethnic cleansing live on tv until the political pressure was overwhelming. We would likely have done the same thing in Africa if we weren't bogged down in Iraq.

So to save some civilians from death we bombed the shit out of other civilians? Ok I see that war was fine because we saved White people from a Dictator, but Iraq is wrong because we saved brown people from a Dictator. Who was it that pulled troops out of Somalia in disgrace? Who was it that did nothing when the Genocide in Rwanda was going on? Who was President that bombed the shit out of Sudan without declaring war? Who was it that allowed the US to be hit by 3 majour terror strikes and do nothing significant to stop it?

[Dave]

Even if we were lied into that war, did Wilson ok torture too? There's a big long list of unprosecuted crimes that make Bush/Cheney the worst ever.

Canadiancapitalist already addresses this. Torture is disgusting, but is it really worse then sending 128,000 Americans to their deaths in a foreign land?

[Todd D.]

I don't know of any president who clearly mislead us into a massive war of choice

Are you kidding?


Misled us via the Gulf of Tonkin in to the full scale of the Vietnam War.

and also okayed the use of torture.

LBJ again, but also Nixon, not to mention the more covert torture that was okayed under pretty much every President of the last Century.

I also don't understand why everyone is so anti-Carter. He seems like one of the better presidents in the 20th century to me. I think it's just a case of everyone blaming the president for the economy, when in reality none of the economic problems at the time were Carters fault.

Gas controls were his fault. Appointing G. William Miller as Chairman of the Fed was his fault.

[canadiancapitalist]

Oxy : Do you ever find it funny how partisan you are? You are simultaneously arguing that Clinton shouldn't have intervened where he did, and should have intervened where he didn't. Don't you think this is a little inconsistent? Don't you ever get tired of thinking "Democrat bad, Republican good"? I think you should just recognize that both parties and their prophets are interested solely in taking your money and controlling your life.

Gas controls were his fault.

Granted, but this was at a time when his left flank was clammering for nationalization of the oil industries. Politics is the art of the possible.

Appointing G. William Miller as Chairman of the Fed was his fault.

Granted, but boy did he make up for it!

[Oxymoron]

you ever find it funny how partisan you are? You are simultaneously arguing that Clinton shouldn't have intervened where he did, and should have intervened where he didn't. Don't you think this is a little inconsistent? Don't you ever get tired of thinking "Democrat bad, Republican good"? I think you should just recognize that both parties and their prophets are interested solely in taking your money and controlling your life.

I am actually not against Clinton helping our Nato allies clean house. I am just comparing the arguments against Bush with the actions of Clinton. Mercutio considers Bush a criminal for doing pretty much what Clinton did while considering Clinton a great leader. So no I dont think Im partisan at all, Clinton did a lot of things right and was a pretty good President in my opinion.

[canadiancapitalist]

Well it's good that you are consistent, although it's bad that you consistently support intervention. Clinton was a bad president and a war criminal, but I guess now-a-days thats part of the job description.

[Mercutio]

So to save some civilians from death we bombed the shit out of other civilians? Ok I see that war was fine because we saved White people from a Dictator, but Iraq is wrong because we saved brown people from a Dictator. Who was it that pulled troops out of Somalia in disgrace? Who was it that did nothing when the Genocide in Rwanda was going on? Who was President that bombed the shit out of Sudan without declaring war? Who was it that allowed the US to be hit by 3 majour terror strikes and do nothing significant to stop it?

Like I said, it's subjective. Your heroes are my criminals. But judging from the polling, history won't be writing your pov in textbooks.

[Dave]

Given your consistent refusal to address my arguments, is it safe to say that you are unwilling to confront examples which are contrary to your worldview?

[Oxymoron]

Your heroes are my criminals. But judging from the polling, history won't be writing your pov in textbooks.

GWB is not my hero, although I respect him. Polls are short term, you will remember Bush polling after 9/11 was above 90%. I wager that Bush will be remembered in a much more positive light then he is percieved today.

[Mercutio]

I should have also mentioned todays accounts from Bush insiders which are almost all negative.

[Dave]

And what of the negative accounts from Wilson's insiders, like William Jennings Bryan?

[Mercutio]

And what of the negative accounts from Wilson's insiders, like William Jennings Bryan?

So how often is Wilson mentioned on the worst-all-time list. That list used to begin with Buchanan but you can bet his descendents were happy to see Bush come along.

[Dave]

Appeal to authority is not an argument. You consistently refuse to address anything I've said, and now that you deign to you're simply falling back on the arguments of professional historians (whom I strongly disagree with on this issue).

[Dan]

I'm surprised the OP didn't have Lincoln and Clinton on there. Those two would seem to have been as bad as Bush by the OP's measurement.

[W01f]

I wager that Bush will be remembered in a much more positive light then he is percieved today.

What positive things could he possibly be remembered for that would overshadow his blunders in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the economic collapse of a lifetime?

[Oxymoron]

What positive things could he possibly be remembered for that would overshadow his blunders in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the economic collapse of a lifetime?

Blunders in Iraq and Afghan are short term, the overall war has been a success.

[sploop!]

Blunders in Iraq and Afghan are short term, the overall war has been a success.

M I S S I O N A C C O M P L I S H E D !