[Political Interest]

Let us imagine that somehow the Japanese had managed to kick the Europeans out of Asia and had succeeded in defeating both the KMT and CCP in China. What would Asia have looked like by the 1960s and 1970s? Surely the Japanese regime would have become significantly more relaxed by this time and would not be as militantly right wing?

I can imagine there being several puppet regimes under Japanese economic, political and military hegemony. No doubt there would be a military alliance linking all Asian countries as part of the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere. Japanese companies and businesses would probably be the first and foremost in the whole region. I am also sure that anti-Japanese sentiment would be strong in many places. I can also imagine Japan having an insanely high living standard and Japanese expatriates throughout Asia would be considered the elite.

[fuser]

If Japan Had Won In Asia

She didn't had capabilities to hold down Asia on her own, this is just a fantasy scenario akin to what if Namibia occupies USA in 2013.

[Decky]

She didn't had capabilities to hold down Asia on her own, this is just a fantasy scenario akin to what if Namibia occupies USA in 2013.

This, kicking the Europeans out of Asia would also entail the Japanese taking out the Soviets, or in other words

[Smilin' Dave]

had succeeded in defeating both the KMT and CCP in China.

This is pretty unlikely. Japan's war in China had proven to be quite a struggle due to the scale involved. Even had they defeated the two main powers it is quite likely Japan would have been stuck trying to maintain their tenuous hold against varying degrees of local 'disobedience'.

Surely the Japanese regime would have become significantly more relaxed by this time and would not be as militantly right wing?

Perhaps not. When a particular political approach appears to have worked (in this instance imperialism) it tends not to fade away that quickly, after all why stop backing a winning horse? Liberal movements in Japan hadn't been particularly strong. If there were a continuing threat of attack from an external power (say the Soviet Union or the US) against their empire, it would probably tend to encourage them to stay the course rather than invite potential chaos through reform.

I can imagine there being several puppet regimes under Japanese economic, political and military hegemony.

I think long term this would have proven difficult. While a number of independence movements that partnered with the Japanese were happy enough to have their support during the war, I think it likely they would have grown to resent the Japanese as replacement colonial masters just as they had the European powers. The difference this time is that Japan probably wouldn't have the military might of a European power to threaten them, and Japan may even have had to rely more on their colonial partners for troops and resources to sustain their oversized empire.

Consider also exactly how Japan would react if two of its new 'partners' found themselves headed towards conflict. For example in Vietnam and Cambodia had revived their conflict over borders and regional power status, but this time with both as Japanese puppets.

Long story short empires that are achieved by leveraging local nationalist movements can be a lot of trouble for the colonising power.

I can also imagine Japan having an insanely high living standard

Not sure about that. Japan's living standard pre-WWII wasn't being held back so much by their lack of colonial empire so much as their economy/structure couldn't sustain a higher one. Japan's 'external' trade might be hurt despite their new acquisitions, which might handicap them further.

[R_G]

Even if Japan concentrated on only keeping China under foot, they'd fail.


People still don't seem to grasp the fact the Japanese see the Chinese, or at least saw the Chinese at the time as inferior. Consider there are a lot more Chinese than Japanese and what have you?


It would be like the Nazis trying to control a nation filled to the rim with concentration camps. No way you can keep that up in the long-term.

[Daktoria]

Even if Japan concentrated on only keeping China under foot, they'd fail.


People still don't seem to grasp the fact the Japanese see the Chinese, or at least saw the Chinese at the time as inferior. Consider there are a lot more Chinese than Japanese and what have you?


It would be like the Nazis trying to control a nation filled to the rim with concentration camps. No way you can keep that up in the long-term.

I'm not totally sure about this. Japan had integrated Koreans into society for generations before invading mainland China.

Granted that China is a lot bigger than Korea, but the point is they had government in place. Social stratification could have been adapted in accordance similarly to the "four occupations" which still have influence today. That way, native Chinese could have been employed to govern their own people. This is exactly what the Japanese did to govern Manchuria the decade before engaging Pearl Harbor as well.

The Chinese Civil War also had many independent warlords left over from the previous era who weren't eager to join either the communists or nationalists. They would be looking for esteemed positions to secure themselves.

In fact...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborat ... inese_Army

This, kicking the Europeans out of Asia would also entail the Japanese taking out the Soviets, or in other words

Russo-Japanese War doesn't ring a bell?

That said, this scenario might only be feasible if the Germans were successful as well since the Russians didn't turn around until the Germans were defeated.

Another alternative is how the Germans supported China while its foreign policy lagged attached to WW1 in remembering how Japan was allied to the Entente. The Soviet-Japanese NAP could have remained important if Germany didn't abandon the Chinese for the Japanese against Russia.

Let us imagine that somehow the Japanese had managed to kick the Europeans out of Asia and had succeeded in defeating both the KMT and CCP in China. What would Asia have looked like by the 1960s and 1970s? Surely the Japanese regime would have become significantly more relaxed by this time and would not be as militantly right wing?

Are you including the expulsion of British India, Australia, and American Philippines?

I think the real key here is the British and French alliances with Poland. If the Allies didn't see a reason to fight Germany after Germany allied Japan, it's doubtful they would have responded to Japanese aggression. The American oil and steel embargo wouldn't have meant much either if Japan invaded the East Indies without attacking Pearl Harbor.

Militarism doesn't fade lightly, however. The next generation would want to appeal to the honor of its ancestors to achieve social status, and that would likely mean another wave (or two) of expansion by the '60s and '70s.

[fuser]

Japan had integrated Koreans into society for generations

Generations, are you sure about that given the fact that colonization of Korea by Japan was a recent phenomenon and also they were integrated? Ever heard of March 1st Movement and countless other anti Japanese activities all across Korea all the time under Japan translates into integration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborat ... inese_Army

It proves nothing, 6 million chin ease as armed forces fought against Japan, a mere 150 thousands fighting with them is just a mere drop in ocean. Collaborationist armies have existed everywhere and it proves nothing.

Russo-Japanese War doesn't ring a bell?

Talk about recent event, talk about khalkin gol, talk about August Storm. To think that Japan could had matched Soviet Military power in that era is just plain stupid.

[Daktoria]

Generations, are you sure about that given the fact that colonization of Korea by Japan was a recent phenomenon and also they were integrated? Ever heard of March 1st Movement and countless other anti Japanese activities all across Korea all the time under Japan translates into integration.

It proves nothing, 6 million chin ease as armed forces fought against Japan, a mere 150 thousands fighting with them is just a mere drop in ocean. Collaborationist armies have existed everywhere and it proves nothing.

http://books.google.com/books?id=eJBjkA ... cy&f=false

The Japanese also supported migrant labor to assimilate Koreans into Japanese culture, something they were eager to do despite being underpaid compared to Japanese workers because Korea was still (held) so backwards.

As for insurgencies, the Japanese were capable of harsh crackdowns such as Nanking and the Three Alls.

You're also still ignoring the leftover warlords who even Kai-Shek and Mao had trouble handling.

Talk about recent event, talk about khalkin gol, talk about August Storm. To think that Japan could had matched Soviet Military power in that era is just plain stupid.

Do you have any evidence that the Russians were prepared to engage in the far east?

[fuser]

The Japanese also supported migrant labor to assimilate Koreans into Japanese culture

Of course Japan tried to assimilate Korea but it doesn't mean that they succeeded. Please see several indigenous independence movement in Korea enjoying massive support. Wikipedia will be enough

As for insurgencies, the Japanese were capable of harsh crackdowns such as Nanking

Nanking massacre was not a reaction to an insurgency. And its exactly that kind of behavior of Japanese troops that would had made sure that they are not going to get any type of support from different Asian nationalist whatsoever.

Do you have any evidence that the Russians were prepared to engage in the far east?

August Storm

[Daktoria]

Nanking massacre was not a reaction to an insurgency. And its exactly that kind of behavior of Japanese troops that would had made sure that they are not going to get any type of support from different Asian nationalist whatsoever.

There was no coherent Chinese nationalism though. Kai-Shek was struggling to glue his own country together.

August Storm

No, that doesn't count. That only happened after the Germans were beaten and the Japanese were already on their heels against the Americans. It was Soviet opportunism to make sure there was a foothold in the aftermath and the preservation of the CPC.

[fuser]

There was no coherent Chinese nationalism though.

That is irrelevant, the point is things like "Nanking" would only alienate Chinease instead of bringing them together with Japan irrespective of their lack of Nationalism.

No, that doesn't count.

What exactly are you looking for? See : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol