[RonPaulalways]

Sapper, I'm not talking about the unattainable Marxist ideal of socialism, I'm talking about the commonly understood definition of socialism that describes the economic system of the Soviet Union and Cuba. The NAZIs believed in a very socialist economic system, although not as purely state-run as the Bolshevik variety.

[pugsville]

One of those hard to believe but true things, I'm actually a native speaker, English is my first and only language, but I cant spell, dispite being a big reader from an early age. Cant pronouce a lot words properly too. I stuggle with english, I have a lot of respect for people with real command of language and do widh I have more. As a Geek boy I wuz on line very early and my posts have always had a distinctive spelling idiom. And I just cant stand being told what to do by a computer.

RonPaulalways, define socialism if you dont like other definitions and list a couple of ways the Nazis impelemented policies along these lines.

[Sapper]

I'm talking about the commonly understood definition of socialism that describes the economic system of the Soviet Union and Cuba.

No. All you are doing is denouncing command economies. Not every command economy is socialist.

[Dave]

It amounts to the same thing unless you're obsessed with a silly concept like "surplus value".

[Sapper]

It amounts to the same thing unless you're obsessed with a silly concept like "surplus value".

No. You're no theoretician, and your gift for analysis is subnormal.

[Dave]

Really, what's the difference? Some people make profits in the non-socialist command economy? Who cares? This leftist obsession with profits is abnormal and qualifies as a brain disease: proletarian spongiform encephalitis.

[redcarpet]

This leftist obsession with profits is abnormal

Really? So most American's oppose Obama's cap on bonuses?

[Dave]

those bonuses aren't even profits, they're wages paid to the intellectual/managerial proletariat

ordinary people are concerned with what they perceive as excessively high/unfair prices/profits

leftists (and I don't mean liberals) are obsessed with "surplus value" which ordinary people not infected with marxian brain disease don't care about

[justaguy]

Internationalism is imperialism, but you're right, the Nazis were not nearly close to socialist. They were corporatist, at best. They never transfered over the means of production to the workers and operated on a purely capitalist basis.

Quite wrong, National Socialism was defined as such because the State acquired and maintained entire control over the means and amount of all production, while allowing ownership to remain private. So while you could be an owner of a factory, farm, etc, you were told what and how much you could produce and your suppliers were controlled in the same manner. This is not what I would call a purely capitalist basis.

[Sapper]

eally, what's the difference? Some people make profits in the non-socialist command economy? Who cares? This leftist obsession with profits is abnormal and qualifies as a brain disease: proletarian spongiform encephalitis.

This is not what I would call a purely capitalist basis.

Command economy.

I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a witless worm.

[Cheesecake_Marmalade]

National Socialism was defined as such because the State acquired and maintained entire control over the means and amount of all production, while allowing ownership to remain private.

Wow thanks for defining corporatism for me and then affirming that the means of production were privately owned. Wanna impeach your argument even more than it has already been impeached?

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

According to leftists, drug abuse should be legal, alongside prostitution; while freedom of speech should be restricted, in order for it not to be used to insult others based on their religious beliefs, and taxes should be increased to stimulate economic growth.

Not all leftists believe in drug legalization. I happen to support marijuana legalization for a number of reasons, though I think the marijuana tax revenues should go to drug and alcohol treatment programs.

I don't think freedom of speech should be restricted, though if a particular hate-based social or political movement gains so much power that it threatens the security of the greater community, I think the government should be willing and ready to use firepower to crush it.

Taxes should not be increased to stimulate growth. Taxes should be increased in order to improve the infrastructure and other public capital goods, as well as to counteract immorally high levels of income inequality among people who work for a living.

I'm no flaming leftist by international standards. In America I'm well left of center, in Canada or Britain I would be very close to center, and in Sweden my economic views would be center-right. In the PoFo Parliament I am about as close to the middle as you can get...

[redcarpet]

the unattainable Marxist ideal of socialism

Actually, Karl Marx predicted that the final form of society would be COMMUNIST. Socialism would be the second last.

Clearly you're not only deluded about what socialism and Fascism is you don't even understand the basic tenets of Marxism. Reductio ad absurdum from another right-wing nutjob, how typical.

[RonPaulalways]

Ah, a retarded socialist nitpicking on semantics and missing the point I'm making.

[redcarpet]

nitpicking

Lol! That's you! You try to hijack names of OTHER people's beliefs. How about I call Libertarianism slavery? Ok.

It is not 'semantics' to ensure accuracy and understanding. You're wrong on what socialism is and what Karl Marx predicted the final and ideal form of human society is.

I well understood your point, since you were incorrect I was able to correct you. I don't exactly need to Google these matters, but that's because I've read and thought about politics perhaps WAY more than you have. You are neither well informed nor able to make a consistent argument.

Look in the mirror

[RonPaulalways]

Quote:
nitpicking


Lol! That's you! You try to hijack names of OTHER people's beliefs. How about I call Libertarianism slavery? Ok.

You're nitpicking, because you're missing the essential point I'm making, which is that socialism as conceived by Marx is UNATTAINABLE. It's utopianist fantasy.

[redcarpet]

the essential point I'm making, which is that socialism as conceived by Marx is UNATTAINABLE

Lol! No, that's revising your point. Your point was Nazi doctrine is socialism simply because 'socialism' is part of the party name, lol. THAT was your argument.

You said nothing about practicality, saying it now is merely switching to a new argument after repeated refutations you refused to accept.

[RonPaulalways]

Quote:
the essential point I'm making, which is that socialism as conceived by Marx is UNATTAINABLE


Lol! No, that's revising your point. Your point was Nazi doctrine is socialism simply because 'socialism' is part of the party name, lol. THAT was your argument.

What revision!? Look back at the comment that started this dispute between us:

Sapper, I'm not talking about the unattainable Marxist ideal of socialism, I'm talking about the commonly understood definition of socialism that describes the economic system of the Soviet Union and Cuba.

I have not revised this position! You argued that I was wrong because:

Quote:
the unattainable Marxist ideal of socialism


Actually, Karl Marx predicted that the final form of society would be COMMUNIST. Socialism would be the second last.

So to recap:

Socialism as understood in the real world is not Karl Marx's utopian fantasy. It is ideologies like NAZIism and to a greater extent, Bolshevism

[ingliz]

If I called libertarianism a fascist ideology you would object strongly. Why should we accept your plainly wrong characterisation of Nazis as socialists?

[redcarpet]

I'm talking about the commonly understood definition of socialism

That was your point, claiming

the economic system of the Soviet Union and Cuba

to be

the commonly understood definition

That was the propaganda line of the US from 1917-92, yes. But that was for propaganda purposes. Also reflecting the USSR and Cuba's official propaganda line that the USSR and allies were 'true' socialist societies to suppress dissent internally.

The fact you so easily swallow government propaganda is laughable.

It is ideologies like NAZIism

No it isn't, that's your interpretation.