[Cartertonian]

What ho!

I rarely post in this sub-forum, on account of the fact that the 'military hardware' I mostly use in my day to day work in the military is a piece of paper and a pen.

Bowing, as I therefore do, to the far greater technical knowledge hereon - what's the story with EMP weapons?

The matter came up on the 'Women on the front line' thread, that I lack the wit to link to ( )

Now, thanks to a virus, our PCs were out for three weeks in the new year and it caused no end of chaos. But what if everything electronic upon which we have become so dependent were suddenly rendered useless?

Do EMP weps either have the capability to achieve that now, or will they ever have in the future?

Professionally speaking, I am somewhat alarmed at the degree to which we have become reliant on not just computers, but 'things electronic'. I can see a bloody, attritional war in our future that is so largely because our fancy robots and whizz-bang wiggly-amp bits of kit are taken out by EMP and we are left to fight at bayonet-point, as in days of old.

[MB.]

[Cartertonian]

I think you beat me to it, mate, with your splitting of threads!

Should I re-edit it and stick it into the other EMP thread, or what?

[Rojik of the Arctic]

I don't know a lot about EMPs but nuclear airbursts can create a similar (and stronger) effect. How long it lasts I don't know but it could be an option for a desperate state.

[Zerogouki]

NORAD is very well hardened. An EMP could cause some local economic disruption, but it would do nothing to cripple our naval, air, or nuclear abilities.

[Cartertonian]

NORAD is very well hardened. An EMP could cause some local economic disruption, but it would do nothing to cripple our naval, air, or nuclear abilities.

That's nice for NORAD.

Everything is computerised now - and certainly not everywhere is protected like NORAD. How does the rest of the military function when you can't task remote assets, co-ordinate troop/freight movements, order logistic supplies, have access to HR and medical data, or even pay your personnel because the entire net (or critical nodes within it) have been taken out, by EMP or otherwise?

[Zerogouki]

Do you even know what NORAD is?

[Cartertonian]

Excuse me?

Are you trying to be cute???

I'm a Royal Air Force officer. Of course I know about NORAD.

Tell me, Zerogouki, precisely how the electronic integrity of NORAD should matter a flying fuck to the UK Armed Forces?


Edited once 'cos I've calmed down a bit now.

[Typhoon]

- what's the story with EMP weapons?

I think that there are two possible cases where EMP could be a risk for the UK. The first, most prevalent but yet the least likely to be used (because of our deterrent and lack of technology for most) is nuclear airburst as noted by Rojik. COTS technology (most civil and a large proportion of our military hardware) is knocked out when the EMP field strength is greater than 3kV/m. As such a high altitube airbust is suffient yield (several kT) will likely knock out most civil and military infrastrucutre accross the UK and a large section of Europe.

For those in the US (equally applicable to the UK) here is a report:
http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473 ... on-7MB.pdf

The second potential usage against the UK comes from high power microwave systems installed in weapons or used as directed enegy weapons such as the Russian Ranet system. The former is the electrical equivilent of any other weapon and as yet I dont believe they have been adopted, other than very specialist roles they are unlikely to replace conventional weapons. The later is more prevalent with a limited number of these systems present and a risk of proliferation, this threat would be most likely met by UK forces overseas and would be effective in ranges in excess of 10km against most equipment.

Out of interest cartertonian how much training do those in the forces recieve about potential threats,...I suppose it is relevant to where you work and your role (office, pilot, etc)?

[Cartertonian]

Out of interest cartertonian how much training do those in the forces recieve about potential threats,...I suppose it is relevant to where you work and your role (office, pilot, etc)?

That would be a correct assumption.

Of course, there are fall-backs and fail-safes in the system (or 'business continuity plans' as we are invited to call them. ) to protect essential operational systems, but you can only fight on for so long before you need more ammo, your belly needs filling and your injured need to be cared for.

Systems that support those activities do not appear to be protected.

[Zerogouki]

I'm a Royal Air Force officer.... blah blah... UK Armed Forces?

Oh.

In that case, I guess you're fucked. Don't worry, though; if anything bad happens to you, the USA will come to your rescue like we always do

[Typhoon]

Systems that support those activities do not appear to be protected.

A EMP strike would be a huge blow to the country, though I guess protection is not too developed because if a EMP blast did hit the UK it would be the prelude to somthing much worse, as such the only systems that have been seriously hardened against EMP is our deterrent.

[Cartertonian]

I guess protection is not too developed because if a EMP blast did hit the UK it would be the prelude to somthing much worse

I think that's a bit of a cold warrior perspective, to be honest. Our current concern should be in relation to whether a rather less conventional opponent could get their hands on this sort of wep and wreak havoc.

[Typhoon]

Our current concern should be in relation to whether a rather less conventional opponent could get their hands on this sort of wep and wreak havoc.

I believe only Iran stands out in that respect and even so not quite yet as they dont yet have a nuclear capability, no one else (including terror groups) is likely to be able to do it in the next few decades other than a big state player (US, Russia, China, France, India or Isreal). Maby if Pakistan's deterrant falls in the wrong hands...?

[Zerogouki]

I believe only Iran stands out in that respect and even so not quite yet as they dont yet have a nuclear capability, no one else (including terror groups) is likely to be able to do it in the next few decades

*cough cough* NORTH KOREA *cough cough*