[noemon]

It pretends to be "good for the planet", but it isn't, it is good for consumerism which is the PRIMARY force destroying the planet. The PRIMARY force requiring more mining, more CO2, more plastic. This pretending is the ONLY selling point it has and no other, as it does not have superior products to capture the market it uses moralistic inquisition combined with heavy penalties & taxes to enforce inferior products, noone would actually buy otherwise.

It's all fake, pure smoke & mirrors, you are advocating for the total destruction of the planet, for several orders of MORE CO2, while posturing that you are trying to save the planet while ignoring the plastic in our oceans and soils, while infecting our soils and water ways with extreme chemicals so lithium can be mined.

It's the upside down world served as virtue-signalling by totally confused people and online influencers.

Electric cars, worse for the planet than petrol. But pay 25k penatly for every new petrol car. Because! Pay ULEZ, green levies, fuel taxes, road tax, congestion charges.
Electric cookers, worse than gas stoves.
Electric heat pumps, worse and less efficient per day than gas boilers.
Food crops and live stock more important than solar farms that require gas back up and FULL replacement every 25-35 years.
The little Netherlands is the second largest food producer in the world, and they want to kill that so they can put solar farms in their fields? Have they gone insane?
We subsidise farmers to kill their crops and live stock?
We ban "phones", to replace them with "tablets" without first installing wifi and fiber lines? .ie cars and grid? The cart before the horse fucking supply and demand, driving energy prices 6,7,8,9, 10 times more expensive so green projects can be viable, because all the subsidies not enough, wind farms now require £75 per MWh WHOLESALE to be viable, 3 times the retail price of 2 years ago? WHAT?

None of all this total bs has raised your eyebrows yet?

Well investors are showing us the way as bs fatigue is creeping up now and venture capital excess is running out of steam.

Helicopter money no longer in abundance.

[Rancid]

Anyone know how hybrid vehicles stack up with respect to CO2?

[noemon]

Anyone know how hybrid vehicles stack up with respect to CO2?

I really don't know, I want to believe they are better than electric ones as their batteries are much smaller.

I would consider a hybrid I think.

There are new petrol cars out there that do 50, 60 and 75 miles to the gallon. That is quite impressive too and is hybrid level already.

My mate is quite happy with his Toyota C-HR hybrid. It only got a minor issue on steep hills as it struggles.

Another issue may be the battery placement causing mass displacement and making the car dangerous on the road. So drive it before you buy it and test it thoroughly.

TESLA & Porsche solved this problem by distributing the battery weight in the chassis itself. Toyota has struggled there with its earlier hybrid models like the RAV-4 flipping at less than 50 miles an hour in the moose test due to the battery being placed in a corner.

[late]

Anyone know how hybrid vehicles stack up with respect to CO2?

Not great, they have the downsides of both. I have a Prius, btw.

In one sense, this is simple. We have a problem, and we need to fix it.

That's where the simple part ends...

I like to say global problems demand global solutions. But, at this time, we don't have a global authority strong enough to regulate, and we need one.

We also need to design a low carbon energy system for each country, and then have that global authority give it a timetable to do it.

But before we get that into it, we need to develop new tech that will enable us to do it. For example, we need to reduce solar input. I like the idea that we have ships that pump sea water into the upper atmosphere, most around Antarctica. But we need to test big umbrellas is Space, and other stuff. Then we need to improve efficiency. Most of that is easy, and involves an incremental Carbon Tax. An accountant is not going to buy a F150 to drive to his office if he knows the cost of filling his gas tank goes up every year.

Lastly, we need to regulate towns and cities in ways that wind up improving their energy efficiency. They will need financial help, but combing a carrot with a stick is standard in Washington DC.

I had a friend over for lunch, he's smarter than I am, but didn't go to college. I could not get him to understand how income inequality screws up everything. I have the same problem here, it's a big problem, and people not only have trouble wrapping their heads around it, it scares them.

[Godstud]

@Rancid in 2004 I drove a Toyota Echo. A nice little zippy car(seated 4, comfortably) which got BETTER mileage(52 mpg) than a hybrid vehicle(42 mpg), but it is gas powered. Why pay more for a Hybrid when the alternatives already exist? Gas powered cars are already greener than Hybrids, yet Hybrids are great?

People who buy trucks already pay more fuel costs and thus higher taxes, and most of these carbon taxes cost everyone more for food, and other necessities that are brought to use via, you guessed it, trucks! Even the idiots Green cult is makin themselves pay more for everything by supporting these stupid policies that only benefit the rich.

The regulation and taxes are ridiculous. There is no basis in reality for them. They are money grabs for governments and everyone sees them for what they truly are... another source of cash flow for greedy governments.

[noemon]

[BeesKnee5]

Latest report from Volvo providing an update to the previously mentioned one

"EX30 has a total carbon footprint of 23 tonnes per 200k km – approx. 60% less than the XC40 ICE (petrol)"

https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/me ... eport1.pdf

[late]

24 years ago, when the Prius was launched, the American Right howled like they'd had their nuts cut off without the benefit of anesthesia.

I told them it was a transitional technology. All of this stuff still is.

My favorite whine was when they said hybrid production would soon stop. They don't have much of what you'd call a track record.

There's a lot going on. Russian gas has dropped by over 2/3. Even worse, they are getting gas from us, and shipping by boat is the most expensive way to do it. So high energy prices.

Then there is the inflation... Americans whine about it more, but Europe got hit harder.

What this all means is that people will have to make an adjustment, it's going to take a generation, and it's going to hurt.

[Godstud]

24 years ago, when the Prius was launched, the American Right howled like they'd had their nuts cut off without the benefit of anesthesia

. Maybe the idiots you know, but I don't know any right wingers who gave a damn.

At the same time Elon Musk was "Left" according to everyone in the world. What happened? He didn't change. He made electric cars popular and now he is derided because he stood up for freedom of speech. The Liberal Left is fucked in the head.

Electric cars charged with coal and oil. It doesn't get much more Green than that, right?

[late]

Maybe the idiots you know, but I don't know any right wingers who gave a damn.

At the same time Elon Musk was "Left" according to everyone in the world. What happened? He didn't change. He made electric cars popular and now he is derided because he stood up for freedom of speech. The Liberal Left is fucked in the head.

Electric cars charged with coal and oil. It doesn't get much more Green than that, right?

They made a lot of noise.

One Right wing theme I still see is reducing everything to the level of a cartoon, and not a good cartoon.

My opinion of Musk is that multi-use rockets is a terrible idea, when you're transporting people.

One of the things I have been talking about for a long time is the development and deployment of a Smart Grid. That would cost a lot of money, but it simply has to be done.

What we're looking at now is a multi-pronged growth in demand for power. It's not just electric cars, its the cloud, the growing use of AC in the summer, it's AI and bitcoin.

Politicians were told this was coming. Part of the reason they didn't do much of anything is all the whiners. Guys like you.

[BeesKnee5]

More on this report
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... eener-pick

"Applying its full lifecycle methodology, including cradle-to-grave manufacturing and use, Volvo found the lifetime CO2 of the EX30, based on 200,000 km (124,000 miles), to be 36,000 kg and 31,000 kg, for the NMC and LFP versions, respectively. With the same methodology applied, Volvo had calculated the lifetime CO2 of the XC40 Recharge to be 54,000 kg of CO2 equivalent."

[BeesKnee5]

Musk will be whatever sells.

Want to sell a truck then appeal to republicans, want to sell a car then appeal to Democrats.

But mostly he's just a conspiracy theorist who will jump on any bandwagon to get attention.

[late]

More on this report
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... eener-pick

"Applying its full lifecycle methodology, including cradle-to-grave manufacturing and use, Volvo found the lifetime CO2 of the EX30, based on 200,000 km (124,000 miles), to be 36,000 kg and 31,000 kg, for the NMC and LFP versions, respectively. With the same methodology applied, Volvo had calculated the lifetime CO2 of the XC40 Recharge to be 54,000 kg of CO2 equivalent."

We need to become a lot more energy efficient.

Which is one of the easier things to do, and most of it we already know how to do. We just have to do it.

[AFAIK]

Anyone know how hybrid vehicles stack up with respect to CO2?

It depends how they're driven. The engine is the heaviest component of a car so adding a second one can dramatically increase emissions if it's mostly driven at speed on motorways and country roads. Also depends on charging. Plug in hybrids can recharge from the grid and have whatever emissions the energy mix the grid uses has, if the battery is charged solely from burning petrol in the engine then the emissions will be higher.

As I said earlier the best way to green transport would be to electrify lorries and buses with overhead wires and embedded conduits and massively increase the provision of rail, bus and cycling. Hybrids are a half measure of a half measure.

[BeesKnee5]

Another report, this time from BNEF.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newslett ... stion-cars

[Rich]

All that is now outdated nonsense. Carbon taxes "reduce" emissions superficially not in reality and by penalty, by forcing people to pay money to replace their cars, which in turn causes more environmental damage as it increases consumerism and throws more cars into the streets, more steel, more batteries, more CO2, more extraction and so on and forth..

I feel this is a much more fundamental problem than most people realise. I consider myself a long time Green. I abhor the loss of nature and the inexorable urbanisation. I try not to be wasteful and at least be a bit selective about my consumerism. I try to treat my environment with a basic respect. Call me a hyporite perhaps, I work at Glastonbury Festival and find the fact that it calls itself Green an abominable mockery. If people can't even do the basics of not dropping litter.

But here's the problem, what we need from humans is less. We need less humans, producing less, consuming less and doing less. But Greens rather than wanting to do less for the environment nearly always want to do more.

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle!

Great slogan, but the order of the words matter. The greatest emphasis and focus should be on "Reduce", the least emphasis and focus should be on "Recycle". But of course the big winner is Recycling because that allows people to do more. Especially middle class people who have more time to devote to virtue signalling. Especially middle /upper class people with servants sorry I mean domesticity professional.

[late]

We need to become a lot more energy efficient.

Which is one of the easier things to do, and most of it we already know how to do. We just have to do it.

Europe has had high gas taxes for a very long time. It's one of the reasons they have gone crazy for ebikes.

If one stops being a reactionary then pursuing efficiency is inescapable. It's why most European cars are smaller than American cars. It's why ebikes sell like mad. It's why good cities are set up so that most don't have to have a car.

There is a lot we can do, with existing technology, to improve efficiency.

We should continue doing R&D, we need better batteries, among other things. And it's worth mentioning that the remaining nuke power plants do more than help reduce carbon emissions. They cut down on the need for energy coming from Russia. That's what we call a win/win.

[noemon]

The green lunatics in Europe have shut down and are shutting down nuclear power plants as we speak. They are also trying to get the Netherlands to stop producing actual food.

If one stops being a wannabe progressive and stops identifying himself against the supposed reactionaries, then and only then can people have an actually honest and open conversation without their ideological baggage forcing them into default positions.

While the average American is still downsizing in the US from an Escalade to a BMW, a British/London consumer during the same time will have changed 4 cars and 3 loans.

500% of GDP was the private debt in the UK, a few years ago.

Now, when your lending market is revving on the red line, base interest rates are over 5% and the government is imposing a 25k fine to manufacturers for every petrol car sold as well as plenty of fines to consumers for every petrol car driven, you are effectively squeezing a lemon that has no more juice left in it, with a bloody vise, so that lemon can buy more new things, so that the government does not go bankrupt with its own 200% of debt on GDP.

Recipe for disaster. It becomes self-sustaining as any slowing of the engines down throws everything under. But even worse, they are pushing both supply and demand while at the same time pushing both money supply and interest rates. Pushing from all 4 corners simultaneously when only 2 are allowed per time.

Such extreme and desperate measures are not required for good products that actually solve problems. Those sell themselves.

[Godstud]

Green Activism, as most other activisms now, are actually anti-social and anti-human. They'd prefer humans die, because they're victims and can't be happy unless they are making someone else miserable.

Nuclear power is, quite possibly, the cleanest energy that humans create.