[zach]

why is it that the automobile industry markets suv's and luxury cars, which most often get terrible gas milage and are an overall abombination, to single businessmen and big-wigs? why is it that the perfect car for such a person, who is single and uses their car for transportation to and from work, and possibly for social events, is a geo metro? why will these people not see this opportunity? a $6000 car! 4 seats, 30+ miles to the gallon, and they splurge for the lincoln navigator, or the hummer... it's amazing, it really is. honestly, suv's are a sick icon for the average american: they're huge, they consume an ungodly amount of money, the eat oil for breakfast, and they go fast. this is just further making every other country in the world hate us...for being 5 minute attention spanned, overweight white people... it's wonderful, don't you think?!

[A_Technocrat]

Hey I'll agree with you there. Automobiles are a very inefficient form of transportation. So inefficient that automobiles account for over 95% of the energy consumption in America. This is the case because cars are promoted as property and not as transportation in a price system. This is done to push $$$ around.

But talking like Michael Moore isn't going to fix this problem. To rid America of its ills a rational and all-encompassing plan is needed. A plan that not only fixes the transportation system but every other problem that the price system creates in order to survive.

More info about this plan can be found at:

http://www.technocracy.ca/simp/Technocracy_FAQ_1.x.htm#5.5.1

http://www.technocracyinc.org/briefs/b63.html

http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1063

[Demosthenes]

is a geo metro? why will these people not see this opportunity? a $6000 car! 4 seats, 30+ miles to the gallon

Actually the Honda civic HX coupe is a far better buy than a shitty little metro, granted it cost more apx $15,000 but it gets 44 mpg on the highway, lasts for 200,000 miles (at least) with proper maintanence, and you can still resell it after 10 years of use and get enough for a decent down payment on the next one.

That is IF you need to sell it in 10 years. No so-called American car can top the the so-called Japanese models in anything except possibly appearance, and even that is subjective. I know this is beside your point, but I don't agree with your overall point so I thought I'd just point this out.

[Boondock Saint]

Well Zach apparently you don't have black or hispanic or Asian people in ... oh god ... Rochester NY? Do me a favor and take the NY off there, you give us real NYers a bad name (note, plenty of Manhattenites have said the same thing about me).

To say its a 'white' man thing is rediculous ...

I would agree that expensive cars are a status symbol in American culture (regardless of race) but I would also say I have seen the same evidence in all the developed nations. After all, most of the 'luxory' cars that Americans want are from europe.

As for the 'H2' I can't defend that montrosity ...

A good number of Americans live in an area where a tough SUV is needed, being from the north of NY I would expect you to understand that.

Now, being that a car IS a status symbol to MOST (if not all) Americans one could understand why a person making $100,000 a year would opt for the Beemer instead of the Honda Civic, especially if there is a chance that he might have to drive the boss somewhere.

One thing you also left out ... a corvette will pick up more chicks in any country than a Geo Metro.

Another thing ... if I have money to burn then why the hell should I settle for a crap car instead of something high quality?

And think of all those european manufacturers that the US needs to keep in business ... do you want all those poor euros out of a job?

[Comrade Ogilvy]

I would agree that expensive cars are a status symbol in American culture (regardless of race) but I would also say I have seen the same evidence in all the developed nations. After all, most of the 'luxory' cars that Americans want are from europe.

Erhm, Actually few people in Europe drive luxury cars. Most are exported to the US and high income economies in Asia. Consider the taxes on cars in Europe! Don’t know what taxes for all of Europe but I know that for some of the Nordic countries the registration tax alone is over 200 percent not including VAT (around 20 percent)! To give you an example: my last car back home, a Saab 9-5, was just over 100.000 USD. (Actually, it was my dad's car, but I considered it mine)

Then most Europeans have to pay an annual general road tax which is normally calculated by the weight of your vehicle. This spans from about 200 USD to 3000 USD. Then they pay taxes on gasoline as well as road pricing. Road pricing is often calculated by the size of your vehicle. Finally they have to pay insurance which is often ridiculously high due to the high purchase price of the car.

You see why Europeans rarely drive luxury cars.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Then most Europeans have to pay an annual general road tax which is normally calculated by the weight of your vehicle. This spans from about 200 USD to 3000 USD. Then they pay taxes on gasoline as well as road pricing. Road pricing is often calculated by the size of your vehicle. Finally they have to pay insurance which is often ridiculously high due to the high purchase price of the car.

You see why Europeans rarely drive luxury cars.

But your making his argument for him, they dont drive them because the cant afford to. Not because they dont want to.

[Demosthenes]

My grandad has a Saab 9-5 only cost him about 40k, though. Only other expenses are gas, maintanence which is roughly $1000 a year, Insurance, and a small amount for property taxes. I'm guessing less than $500 a year. Not too shabby, I'd say.

[zach]

A good number of Americans live in an area where a tough SUV is needed, being from the north of NY I would expect you to understand that.

that is a complete exageration. first of all, most of the suv owners in the us DO NOT need such a vehicle. most owners use them as family cars, or just transportation from home to work. second, the people of western new york are ESPECIALLY guilty of mis-using suv's.

they are hideous vehicles, and 95% of the people that own them do not need such power and size.

the environment would love a break, i'm sure of it.

[zach]

http://www.ford.com/NR/rdonlyres/eghowpabxt4hszfonh4udawai3wb7lnn6disrdvfiundjhixsj7u5em2mpqo44exesreyyz5lukron6ijx4u267askd/model-u-brochure.pdf

[Demosthenes]

Ok, I was going to let this go but you hadda go and get rude didn't ya? I hate rude people. They piss me off.

First of all the premise that SUVs are bad is based on junk science. That is the whole rediculaous notion that global warming is anything except a farce. In your envirenmental extremism you probably never bothered to check the earth's emissions of greenhouse gases did you? It's 900 times the amount humans produce annually. That's correct 900 times. Mostly from active volcanoes. This disproves the theory that humans, and Americans in particular are "destroying the planet"

We're just not that bad ass. We can be shrugged off any ole' time the earth decides it no longer has a use for us. Simple as that.

...for being 5 minute attention spanned, overweight white people... it's wonderful, don't you think

Speak for yourself. They already dislike us anyway and this is merely another excuse to be what amounts to a rascist. You wanna reason to hate yourself? Join the Catholic church!

Now for proof as tto he bullshit propaganda that is "Global Warming" see this link, but I don't expect many of you to have the patience it will require to fully understand the study. It's there though:

http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm

[Comrade Ogilvy]

You obviously don't live around where there are good numbers of successful black, asian, ect businessmen and the like, they drive SUVs I believe as much as whites do.

I do agree with the tone of your post though, and will take it a bit further. The way I see it, the vast majority of our American culture thrives on stupidity, no matter what color you are, if the big companies make it appear that this is what you drive if you are successful through manipulative advertisement, it strokes peoples egos, and the vain will buy into it. Everyone is made to feel like a bigshot whether they can come up with the goods or not, and people that are materialistic, foolish, vain etc will keep these companies going strong, putting injected false self image before quality, common sense and reality.

A good example of this mentality: I used to work with a guy that did not like beer but would drink Corona beer at bars (when it was considered "fashionable" I guess) I asked him why he drank it if he didn't like beer he said- and this is no shit "It's not whether you like it or not, it's how you look drinking it" I laughed in his face!

I rely on the "consumer Reports" publication to get information on the reliability and quality of cars, (and I hate to say it) but put side by side American cars very poor compared to the Japanese imports. I agree SUVs are for the stupid, but it makes jobs.

[Boondock Saint]

A good number of Americans live in an area where a tough SUV is needed, being from the north of NY I would expect you to understand that.

that is a complete exageration. first of all, most of the suv owners in the us DO NOT need such a vehicle. most owners use them as family cars, or just transportation from home to work. second, the people of western new york are ESPECIALLY guilty of mis-using suv's.

they are hideous vehicles, and 95% of the people that own them do not need such power and size.

the environment would love a break, i'm sure of it.

Is it?

I disagree. Even here on the island we have had snow storms that have stopped us. Emegency calls went out over the radios to people who owned SUV's so that doctors, nurses and other emergency personel could get to work. Now, imagine if everyone was driving around in a geo metro.

That would have been freakin great ...

95%?

I never believe anyt statistic that is 95%, especially when there is no viable way to prove the alleged statistic.