Study Supports View That Ice Age Is Still Quite a Way Off - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#186773
By ANDREW C. REVKIN

Published: June 9, 2004

Despite the recent trend toward global warming, scientists have long wondered whether the earth was nearing another ice age — an end to the 12,000-year temperate spell in which modern civilizations arose. Some have said such a transition is overdue, given that each of Earth's three previous temperate intervals lasted only about 10,000 years.

But now, in an eagerly anticipated study, a group of climate and ice experts says it has new evidence that Earth is not even halfway through the current warm era. The evidence comes from the oldest layers of Antarctic ice ever sampled.

Some scientists had already proposed similar hypotheses, basing them on the current configuration of the earth's orbit, which seems to set the metronome that ice ages dance to. Temperature patterns deciphered in sea-bottom sediments in recent years supported the theory.

But experts say the new ice data is by far the strongest corroborating evidence, revealing many similarities between today's atmospheric and temperature patterns and those of a prolonged warm interval that took place 430,000 years ago.

The findings are described today in the journal Nature by the European Project for Ice Coring in Antarctica.

The evidence comes from a shaft of ice extracted over five grueling years from the deep-frozen innards of Antarctica, composed of thousands of ice layers formed as each year's snowfall was compressed over time.

The deepest portions retrieved so far came from layers 10,000 feet deep and dating from 740,000 years ago. The relative abundance of certain forms of hydrogen in the ice reflects past air temperatures.

Many ice cores have been cut from various glaciers and ice sheets around the world, but until now none had reached back beyond 420,000 years, making this core the first to fully capture conditions during that long-lasting warm period, called Termination V.

"It's very exciting to see ice that fell as snow three-quarters of a million years ago," said Dr. Eric W. Wolff, an author of the paper who is an ice-core expert with the British Antarctic Survey.

Several independent researchers familiar with the project said the case for a prolonged warm period now was strong, but still circumstantial.

Dr. Gerard C. Bond, an expert on past climates at the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University, said that even though earth's orbital characteristics were similar to those of 400,000 years ago, and even though sea and ice records showed similar temperatures, one match did not necessarily make a pattern.

Still, Dr. Jerry F. McManus, an expert in oceans and past climates at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution on Cape Cod, wrote a commentary for Nature in which he described the new ice core record as "spectacular."

He said it was particularly important because it gave the first full view of conditions during a past warm interval that, both in terms of the planet's orbit and atmospheric conditions, was most like the current one.

He and the paper's authors noted that there was a wild card present now that could cause the current era to stray from past patterns: the intensification of earth's natural insulating "greenhouse effect" by smokestack and tailpipe emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases.

Indeed, many experts said the most important data from the new ice core were yet to come because the researchers had only just begun to analyze air bubbles trapped when the various layers formed.

The bubbles are an archive of past atmospheric conditions that can show how greenhouse gases and temperatures varied long before humans were an influence.

"By understanding what has driven the natural changes seen in the ice record, we will create better models to predict how climate might change in the future," Dr. Wolff said.

Climate experts not associated with the project agreed, saying the longer record provided by this ice core provided more chances to test a computer simulation's ability to recreate past conditions.

Outside experts and the European team also agreed that the discoveries had only just begun.

In the next 6 to 12 months, the team is to decipher changes in the atmosphere over the full 740,000-year span. And more ice is still being extracted from the hole, potentially taking the record back another 100,000 years or more.

Dr. Richard B. Alley, an ice-core expert at Penn State not affiliated with the project, called it "a triumph of brilliant persistence" in the face of broken drills and temperatures of 60 below zero at the drilling site, which is hundreds of miles from the nearest permanent research hub.

"The current publication is something akin to the first run on a new accelerator or the first look at a galaxy through the latest mega-telescope," he wrote in an e-mail message. "The results are clearly of value in and of themselves, but are even more exciting for what they promise in the future."



http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/09/scien ... ner=GOOGLE
By Korimyr the Rat
#186822
Since it is cyclical, and we are less than halfway through the latest warming period... doesn't it logically follow that we can expect world temperatures to continue rising for the next few thousand years or so, with or without our assistance?
By Ásatrúar
#186830
Korimyr the Rat wrote:Since it is cyclical, and we are less than halfway through the latest warming period... doesn't it logically follow that we can expect world temperatures to continue rising for the next few thousand years or so, with or without our assistance?


Yes. And as I have said before, the Sun is in it's peak of activity it has been in a very long time, no wonder temperatures will be a few degrees higher. The eco-wackos blame everything on humans and industry - that is crazy there are too many variables and not enough evidence. Btw, we have another Coronal mass ejection headed toward earth - and people pay no attention.
By glinert
#187160
I personally see no difference in our weather patterns with all this global warming crap. I see no difference at all. It actually getting colder here.
By Ásatrúar
#187537
Well the last heat wave to sweep europe hit france (and us) pretty bad.
User avatar
By Comrade Ogilvy
#188067
Ásatrúar wrote:Well the last heat wave to sweep europe hit france (and us) pretty bad.


When you mentioned a Coronal mass ejection does that have anything to do with the supposed really harsh heat wave this summer we are supposed to have? It should be brutal outside here in NY they say :flamer: (Heat will do this to ya in summer!)
By Vassili Zaitsev
#400949
Actually this year's summer is a lot cooler than last years summer. 2002 was the hotest summer I've experienced here though. I remembe ron June 1st it was almost a hundred! By July through September it was hot enough to fry rocks in my bedroom (we don't have air conditioning) :x. Last year wasn't so bad, the really hot weather didn't set in until the end of June. And this year is very mild! I'm very surprised in the weather pattern we're having this year. It actually gets cool enough to wear a light jacket in the evening. I wonder if this means this year's winter will be more extreme? Not that I would mind, I enjoy winter.
User avatar
By Iain
#414581
glinert wrote:I personally see no difference in our weather patterns with all this global warming crap. I see no difference at all. It actually getting colder here.
You do realise your second sentence flatly contradicts your first :?:
User avatar
By Iain
#414584
Korimyr the Rat wrote:Since it is cyclical, and we are less than halfway through the latest warming period... doesn't it logically follow that we can expect world temperatures to continue rising for the next few thousand years or so, with or without our assistance?
If it's cyclical and we're about half way towards the next ice age, surely things should be starting to cool down. Otherwise the cycle would consist of the world getting really really hot then suddenly plunging to extreme cold.

Ásatrúar wrote:Yes. And as I have said before, the Sun is in it's peak of activity it has been in a very long time, no wonder temperatures will be a few degrees higher. The eco-wackos blame everything on humans and industry - that is crazy there are too many variables and not enough evidence.
If there's not enough evidence to say either way, how come people who blame human activity are "eco-wackos" and your opinion is sensible?

And, for the record, your eco-wackos includes the vast majority of the world's climatologists.

New Scientist climate FAQ

New Scientist climate FAQ wrote:So does this mean there are some scientists who don't believe in the greenhouse effect or global warming?

No, this is a myth. All scientists believe in the greenhouse effect. Without it the planet would be largely frozen. And all scientists accept that if humans put more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere it will tend to warm the planet. The only disagreement is over precisely how much warming will be amplified by feedbacks. And there is a growing consensus that the average global warming of 0.6 °C seen in the past century - and particularly the pronounced warming of the past two decades - is largely a consequence of the greenhouse effect.


There is general scientific debate about a range of issues in global warming; but to pretend that only "wackos" believe that global warming is caused by human activity is demonstrably false.

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