[THX40]

I have no idea why people watch "The View." It's basically a panel of gossiping women, none of which seems particularly smart with the exception of Barbara Walters. However what happened between O'Reilly and Behar/Goldberg did get a lot of media attention and the incident does raise an interesting point.

I have to say that although I believe O'Reilly could've phrased things better, his statement that "Muslims killed us on 9/11" is entirely accurate. The 9/11 hijackers were Muslim extremists therefore they were Muslim and because there was more than one hijacker saying "Muslims" (plural) is valid. Now would it have been better if he had said "Muslim EXTREMISTS killed us on 9/11?" The answer is yes (even though some on the far left will STILL call you a bigot for even using the term "Muslim extremist" but that's another issue.) Regardless I think most people understood what O'Reilly was saying and didn't interpret it as hate speech or a slur/sweeping generalization against the entire Islamic religion.

There are unfortunately people who are prejudiced against Muslims; that's a fact. However there are also people of the other extreme who are so hyper-defensive about any form of criticism that's directed at Muslims (or even Muslim extremists) that they'll immediately get absolutely hysterical and start crying "hate speech!" the moment any such criticism is uttered. I don't recall Joy Behar or Whoopi Goldberg ever having a fit or denouncing Bill Maher when he ridicules Christianity and makes sweeping generalizations about that religion. Yet when someone says something about "Muslims" (particularly when it's a mean ole Fox News commentator) they are absolutely (and selectively) appalled.

I wish there was no bigotry against Muslims but I also wish some on the otherside of the argument could accept criticism of Islam without instantly and spastically screeching about so-called "intolerance."


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[skinster]

Cool story, Hansel.

[godshumbleson]

God help you if you still believe Muslims carried out 9/11.

[DubiousDan]

I have to say that although I believe O'Reilly could've phrased things better, his statement that "Muslims killed us on 9/11" is entirely accurate. The 9/11 hijackers were Muslim extremists therefore they were Muslim and because there was more than one hijacker saying "Muslims" (plural) is valid. Now would it have been better if he had said "Muslim EXTREMISTS killed us on 9/11?" The answer is yes (even though some on the far left will STILL call you a bigot for even using the term "Muslim extremist" but that's another issue.) Regardless I think most people understood what O'Reilly was saying and didn't interpret it as hate speech or a slur/sweeping generalization against the entire Islamic religion.

Christians did the Holocaust. Actually if you look at the history of Europe, a lot of nasty stuff was done in the name of Christianity. As for example, Cromwell’s massacres in Ireland. Strangely, though, in our two wars with Germany, we never referred to them as Christians.

[THX40]

God help you if you still believe Muslims carried out 9/11.

Not at all, please tell us all about the controlled demolition.

Actually if you look at the history of Europe, a lot of nasty stuff was done in the name of Christianity.

Yes I know. And I accept that criticism of Christianity. I wish the left would learn to accept criticism of Muslim extremism. If you can criticize one then you should be able to criticize the other without being called "bigoted."


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[Oleh Hadash]

O'Reilly's words, in and of themselves are accurate. It's his insinuation that's bigoted. Most of us realize that O'Reilly was not-so-subtly implicating all Muslims and/or Islam, in the events of 9/11. O'Reilly's far from a stupid man, he chooses his words carefully. He said exactly what he wants to say, where he went right up to the red-line with his choice of words. He may not have literally said "Muslims are all responsible for 9/11 and they all support terrorism and hate America", but that's certainly what he getting at. If he really believed, in his heart of hearts, that those responsible for 9/11 were Muslim extremists/terrorists, he'd have used those words and made that distinction. The only defense I can make for O'Reilly, after watching the clip, is that perhaps he was just fed-up with being surrounded by morons and wanted to just say something provocative. Perhaps he wanted to dumb himself down so that even someone like Goldberg or Behar could understand, at the cost of semantic accuracy. Still, I think he meant what he said.

People do it in this forum all the time. There is despicable anti-semitic rhetoric that occurs in these forums on a daily basis.

[THX40]

He may not have literally said "Muslims are all responsible for 9/11 and they all support terrorism and hate America", but that's certainly what he getting at.

I disagree, while I think he should've said "Muslim extremists" instead of "Muslims" I think the meaning is clear and the only people who are making a big deal out of this are doing so because they want to.

People do it in this forum all the time. There is despicable anti-semitic rhetoric that occurs in these forums on a daily basis

I've noticed that people who criticize Israel are outraged when you call them "anti-semitic" but then they themselves turn around and call people who criticize illegal immigrants "racist xenophobes."


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[Nattering Nabob]

I have to say that although I believe O'Reilly could've phrased things better, his statement that "Muslims killed us on 9/11" is entirely accurate.

Republicans murdered 158 men, women, and children at the Murrah Federal Center in Oklahoma City on April 19th, 1995.

This statement too is entirely accurate...

If an editorialist with a history of bashing Republicans were to say this on national TV right wingers too would be in an uproar...

[Oleh Hadash]

I do not intend to derail this thread, but I'll also mention that anti-Zionists and anti-semites also lie about anti-semitism being overexaggerated. It is as if they think anti-semitism stopped in 1945 and is no longer a serious problem threatening Jewish people. Yes, we're no longer being murdered en masse, but that's not because humanity is magically better than before.

I've been victimized by violence three times because of my identity in North America. Each time was in a normal and nice neighborhood, and each time by "modern" Muslims. I have several friends who have been seriously attacked in Eastern Europe in recent years (i.e. St. Petersburg), two of them being stabbed by skinheads, simply because they are Jewish. These are the small types of things you wouldn't know about unless you were Jewish and plugged into our community. These things are happening regularly. I won't even get into terrorism and wars victimizing thousands of Jews in our own country since decades before our own statehood.

As far as the O'Reilly thing is concerned, I can't see a smart man like him making that mistake. Yes, his words in and of themselves are accurate and true. The insinuation, however, is that the Muslim people are to blame on a wholesale level. How can you not see that? O'Reilly knows about the importance of accurate language, how could he simply slip?

[THX40]

Republicans murdered 158 men, women, and children at the Murrah Federal centre in Oklahoma City on April 19th, 1995.

There's a slight problem with your nifty comparison. The 9/11 hijackers (and Al Qaeda in general) invoked their warped extremist view of the Muslim religion as their motivation. Did Timothy McVeigh ever invoke his devout allegiance to Ronald Reagen when he blew up the Murrah Federal building.

I would have no problem with you saying that rightwingers were responsible for the Oklahoma city bombing because that's entirely factual. I just haven't seen any evidence that McVeigh was driven by fanatical Republicanism.


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[Nattering Nabob]

I just haven't seen any evidence that McVeigh was driven by fanatical Republicanism.

It was anti-big government rage that drove McVeigh...and Republicans have made demonizing the govt (which they equate with the Democratic party) their trademark...with great effect in the case of McVeigh...

[redcarpet]

They were Muslims, yes. It's not 'radical' to be a Sunni, most Muslims ARE Sunnis. Nor is Islam a pacifist faith.

[THX40]

It was anti-big government rage that drove McVeigh...and Republicans have made demonizing the govt (which they equate with the Democratic party) their trademark.

The crazy anti-government militia groups that I've seen interviewed seem to believe the Republican party is too liberal.

Again, any actual evidence that McVeigh was a devout Republican?


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[Arthur2sheds_Jackson]

I prefer Michael Moore's take - a multi-millionaire killed us on 9/11.

So where is the war on multi-millionaires?

[Nattering Nabob]

The crazy anti-government militia groups that I've seen interviewed seem to believe the Republican party is too liberal.

And the 9/11 hijackers believe most Muslims are too liberal...what was your point?

Again, any actual evidence that McVeigh was a devout Republican?

I see you too do not like it when someone identifies McVeigh with the Republicans...just like many do not like it when the 9/11 hijackers are identified with Muslims...which was my point...

[THX40]

I prefer Michael Moore's take - a multi-millionaire killed us on 9/11. So where is the war on multi-millionaires?

So he's claiming that Bin Laden and Al Qaeda are driven more by monetary greed as opposed to being martyrs for Islam? Sounds like the typical nutty analysis from Michael Moore.

And the 9/11 hijackers believe most Muslims are too liberal...what was your point?

My point is that the 9/11 hijackers were motivated by their religion. I have yet to see any evidence that Timothy McVeigh was motivated by his belief in the Republican party.

I see you too do not like it when someone identifies McVeigh with the Republicans

Only when they don't have any evidence to back up such a claim...which you don't.

just like many do not like it when the 9/11 hijackers are identified with Muslims

I'm sorry if the facts validate what some people "do not like."



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[Briton]

Only when they don't have any evidence to back up such a claim...which you don't.

"McVeigh's only known political affiliations were his voter registration with the Republican Party of New York when he lived in Buffalo, New York, and a membership in the National Rifle Association while in the military."

[THX40]

"McVeigh's only known political affiliations were his voter registration with the Republican Party of New York when he lived in Buffalo, New York, and a membership in the National Rifle Association while in the military.

Whether he was a registered Republican was not the question. In order to make the Republican/Muslim comparsion work you have to show how the Republican party motivated McVeigh's actions in the same manner that Al Qaeda invokes Islam? Did McVeigh praise any Republican leader prior to his attack. Did he believe that those who didn't support the Republican party were "infidels." What did McVeigh ever say about the Republican party in relation to the Oklahoma City bombing?


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[Nattering Nabob]

My point is that the 9/11 hijackers were motivated by their religion.

Evidence?

[THX40]

Evidence?

Al-Jazeera also showed al Qaeda video of the hijackers -- all wearing turbans and having full beards, in contrast to their clean-shaven looks on the day of the attacks -- reviewing flight manuals in Kandahar, Afghanistan, and it played a video message from one of the hijackers, who implored the United States to "take your fat hands off the land of Arabs." "We will get you. We will humiliate you. We will never stop following you," said Abdulaziz Alomari, one of the hijackers aboard American Airlines Flight 11, which flew into the north tower of the World Trade centre. "God praise everybody who trained and helped me, namely the leader Sheikh Osama bin Laden. May God bless him. May God accept our deeds." http://tinyurl.com/2fyjo48


And since Bin Laden has taken responsibility for 9/11, here's some quotes from him....


The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies—civilians and military—is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque from their grip - "Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders" (23 February 1998)

Acquiring weapons for the defense of Muslims is a religious duty. If I have indeed acquired these weapons, then I thank God for enabling me to do so. - Time Magazine Interview (23 December 1998)

I'm fighting so I can die a martyr and go to heaven to meet God. Our fight now is against the Americans. - Statement in al-Quds al-Arabi,

Every Muslim must rise to defend his religion. The wind of faith is blowing. - Video statement broadcast on the Arabic-language Al-Jazeera TV station. (7 October 2001)

Every Muslim, from the moment they realize the distinction in their hearts, hates Americans, hates Jews and hates Christians. - Messages to the World: The Statements of Osama bin Laden (2005)



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