[Ombrageux]

There are historical and geo-political reasons for this which have nothing to do with race. After all, the southern Europeans were colonising northern and central Europe just a couple of millennia ago.

Honestly, I think the issue needs more research. But I admit to getting more and more Nordie over time, given the data (though I don't think one should be autistic about it). Take your example: it seems pretty clear the original ancient Greeks and Romans are not very closely related to modern Greeks and Italians. Alexander and the early Roman emperors, for instance, are recorded as blond as Donald Trump.

I think we need to learn from the past. Most Marxists (?) would say they don't literally want to starve the kulaks anymore and this was an excess on the part of their ideological forbears.

[noemon]

it seems pretty clear the original ancient Greeks and Romans are not very closely related to modern Greeks and Italians. Alexander and the early Roman emperors, for instance, are recorded as blond as Donald Trump.

No they aren't. Ancient Greeks & Romans are recorded and painted as brown Meds with brown eyes and skin in between the Egyptians and the Hyperboreans. This Nordic non-sense is merely popular nordic racism seeking to appropriate Greco-Roman civilisation and prestige.

Typical Greco-Roman paintings from the antiquity:

[Potemkin]

No they aren't. Ancient Greeks & Romans are recorded and painted as brown Meds with brown eyes and skin in between the Egyptians and the Hyperboreans. This Nordic non-sense is merely popular nordic racism seeking to appropriate Greco-Roman civilisation and prestige.

Come on, noemon! You know that Plato had blond hair and blue eyes, just like Alexander the Great and Jesus.

[Ombrageux]

I don't they were Scandinavian-looking.

Consider the portraits of Roman Egyptian mummies and modern Egyptians.

Some gene tests would be cool.

[Godstud]

Yeah go figure, the Macedonians were not like Hollywood portrayed them.

[noemon]

These are Greco-Roman portraits(portraits of upper-class Greeks or Romans) not portraits of Egyptians, and modern Egyptians in their majority are Arabs, who were not Egyptian nationals in Egypt in the antiquity. And these portraits show beyond any doubt that the Meds have been Meds for quite a while.

Santa Claus, typical upper-class ethnic-Greek:



Alexander the Great, doesn't look like pale and blonde.

[ArtAllm]

Alexander the Great, doesn't look like pale and blonde.

Well, you have to read more about Alexander the Great before pasting pictures:

The Alexander Mosaic, dating from circa 100 BC, is a Roman floor mosaic originally from the House of the Faun in Pompeii.[1]
...
The mosaic is believed to be a copy of an early 3rd century BC Hellenistic painting.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Mosaic

As we see, this mosaic is only a copy, the original was not preserved, it was a painting.

And paintings tend to become dark after a couple of centuries, you can see this on all icons, thy are very dark not because they were painted this way, but because they are old pictures.

It is possible that many hundred years after Alexander already died the copyist just crated what was in trend at this time.

And here is how Alexander really looked:

Ancient authors recorded that Alexander was so pleased with portraits of himself created by Lysippos that he forbade other sculptors from crafting his image.[157] Lysippos had often used the contrapposto sculptural scheme to portray Alexander and other characters such as Apoxyomenos, Hermes and Eros.[158] Lysippos' sculpture, famous for its naturalism, as opposed to a stiffer, more static pose, is thought to be the most faithful depiction.[159]




The outward appearance of Alexander is best represented by the statues of him which Lysippus made, and it was by this artist alone that Alexander himself thought it fit that he should be modelled. ² For those peculiarities which many of his successors and friends afterwards tried to imitate, namely, the poise of the neck, which was bent slightly to the left, and the melting glance of his eyes, this artist has accurately observed. ³ Apelles, however, in painting him as wielder of the thunder-bolt, did not reproduce his complexion, but made it too dark and swarthy. Whereas he was of a fair colour, as they say, and his fairness passed into ruddiness on his breast particularly, and in his face. 4


...
Greek historian Arrian (Lucius Flavius Arrianus 'Xenophon' c. 86–160) described Alexander as:
[T]he strong, handsome commander with one eye dark as the night and one blue as the sky.[153][154]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great

---------------

Just because Trump is not Jewish....

He is the father of a Jewish daughter and a grandfather of a Jewish grandchild.

... it doesn't mean he can't be in the same league as Zhirinovsky.

He promised to AIPAC that he will be another Zhirinovsky, but Jews still hate him.

So we do not know what Trump will really do, maybe he is really just another pro-Jewish shill.

But we know who Hillary is, she is just a puppet, a very vulnerable puppet with lots of skeletons in her cupboard, depending on the paychecks of her sponsors, and on the drugs she has to take, without drugs she cannot function any more.

Hillary and her husband believe that it will be very good, when white Americans become a minority int the USA, she will start WWIII, if her sponsors demand that.

She promised to be like Frau Merkel, and that will be the end of the USA and the Western world without any doubt.

The most probable thing is that Hillary will not govern at all, she will just be kept alive with drugs, they will show her on TV one time in a month to the gullible Americans, she will sign the papers, and the real governors will be her "advisers", speak the puppeteers.

So if I was an American, I would give a chance to Trump, maybe he will be able to prevent WWIII and maybe he will really make America great again and rescue the dying West from total destruction.

Trump is the lesser evil!

The problem with Americans is that they never experienced a real war, like Russians or Europeans, like destroyed cities, dozens of millions dead, etc...

Americans do not know what the word "war" really means, a couple of coffins from Vietnam and Iraq - that is not war!

So if Americans are brainless people who know the world only form Hollywood pictures, if they want to experience what Europeans experienced in the first half of the 20th century, then the they should vote for Hillary...

[Beren]

Good job reaching out Donald.

It would be too little, too late anyways. The Clintons have too much advantage to catch up with them.

Santa Claus, typical upper-class ethnic-Greek:

Do you mean he's not Finnish?

[noemon]

Well, you have to read more about Alexander the Great before pasting pictures:

Yeah I'm sure ancient Greeks and Romans looked at the mosaics & the paintings and thought to themselves, "they have gone dark, these guys were actually pale white".

The mosaic from 100BC is inaccurate, Hollywood and Nordic supremacism is more accurate I tell you.

I guess one will concoct all kinds of non-sense to advertise his confirmation bias.

As for allegedly going darker, in the paintings that we do have the colours seem wonderfully preserved and that is due to the type of resin they used to coat them, in all paintings we can clearly see the range of colour and the tanned people are in the huge majority.

[Hong Wu]

So you guys are saying that Trump is the next Alexander the Great? Maybe we'll call him Trump the Great and he'll build the Great Wall of America?

[ArtAllm]

Yeah I'm sure ancient Greeks and Romans looked at the mosaics & the paintings and thought to themselves, "they have gone dark, these guys were actually pale white".

I guess one will concoct all kinds of non-sense to advertise his confirmation bias.

Neomon, I have pasted the sculpture that was approved by Alexander himself.

As for going darker in the paintings that we do have the colours seem wonderfully preserved and that is because due to the type of resin they used to coat them, in all paintings we can clearly see the range of colour and the tanned people are in the huge majority.

Neomon, people on old icons look like Europeans, but they have dark skin. You cannot find such people in real life. The painting were protected by a varnish layer that becomes dark as time passes:

As time passes, oil paintings tend to darken due to the accumulation of dirt and yellowing of the protective varnish layer. Since 1974, oil painting restoration professionals have used Gainsborough Products' supplies to reveal color and detail that has been obscured over the years.

[noemon]

Alexander married Roxanna and forced all his Generals to take Persian wives.

And no I highly doubt, Alexander had a butthole for a mouth and tiny hands or that he were such a narcissist.

Neomon, I have pasted the sculpture that was approved by Alexander himself.

So?

Neomon, people on old icons look like Europeans, but they have dark skin. You cannot find such people in real life.

You must be living in some cave, these people are the large majority of modern Greece, Italy & Spain.

The painting were protected by a varnish layer that becomes dark as time passes:

Ancient paintings were not oil paintings and the degrees of colour between paintings can be easily discerned, by your logic the white people in Greek paintings must have been painted snow-white to appear light as they are.

And Alexander being fair by Greek standards means that he were exactly as in the Mosaic, which is fair for Greeks.

Besides the 100BC Mosaic does not have any significant distance with the 300BC painting, there is absolutely no reason to assume that anyone felt that the Mosaic was not an accurate depiction of Alexander, one of the most celebrated ancient figures in both Greece & Rome, no reason except for Nordic racism of course.

How come the lady in the picture appears so much whiter than Alexander wasn't her colour supposed to go dark with age as well?

[Rugoz]

Genghis Khan was also white.

[Beren]

Genghis Khan was also white.

Just like Trump. Which is an on topic statement.

[Ombrageux]

I was reading some history books and both Hitler and Himmler insisted that Genghis Khan was "Aryan," i.e. part-Nordic basically. That seemed really kooky. But they came to this conclusion based on historical reports (Persian) that Genghis had "red hair and bluish-green eyes." Interesting stuff.

Will Trump be the new Genghis Khan?

[Beren]

Will Trump be the new Genghis Khan?

He's more like the last action hero.

[ArtAllm]

How come the lady in the picture appears so much whiter than Alexander wasn't her colour supposed to go dark with age as well?

That is a Mosaic, not a picture.

When was that mosaic created?

Anyway, the sculpture of Lysippos depicts a man that looks like an European, not a Middle Eastern man, and this sculpture was a contemporary sculpture, Alexander liked it.

The mosaics were created many centuries later, when the ethnic composition of Greeks already changed, and the artist took as a model men that lived centuries later.

... the Israelis have had traumatic experiences, the British have not had traumatic experiences, so obviously their reaction cannot be the same.

Why do you think that Israelis were traumatised more than any Europeans?
Israel exists since 1948, there were no Israelis before 1948. So what traumatised these Israelis so much?

The Nakba?

[noemon]

That is a Mosaic, not a picture. The mosaics were created many centuries later, when the ethnic composition of Greeks already changed, and the artist took as a model men that lived centuries later.

The mosaic I posted of Alexander is also a Mosaic not a picture and it was created at 100BC. That is not many centuries later as Alexander lived in 330BC and it is a depiction of one of his paintings. Your ridiculous theory to claim that you are more Greek than the Greeks is well noted though.

Another blatant issue with your logic is that the aforementioned Mosaic is Roman not Greek, did the ethnic-composition of Romans change in the 100BC as well?

This oil painting was painted in 1751, why has the colour not become swarthy like you claim Alexander's painting did within the same time-period supposedly Alexander was actually painted white like this one?

Anyway, the sculpture of Lysippos depicts a man that looks like an European, not a Middle Eastern man, and this sculpture was a contemporary sculpture, Alexander liked it.

The sculpture in case you have not noticed does not depict skin colour and the pictures I posted also look European according to you "except for their Med skin" as if the creators of Europe can be contrasted to "European" skin. That is in fact the proper European skin.

Greeks and Italians and Spaniards have always been swarthy with dark hair and dark eyes. 90% of all Greek and Roman art depicts such Med type men, same continues into the Middle-Ages and the modern day, not Nordic type creatures and it makes sense since they wait for it...they live in the Med.

Why do you think that Israelis were traumatised more than any Europeans?

A German neo-Nazi Nordic supremacist is asking how were the Jews traumatised.

Class.

[ArtAllm]

The mosaic I posted of Alexander is also a Mosaic not a picture and it was created at 100BC.

Yes, but this mosaic was a copy of a painting, and this is only a theory, and nobody saw the painting.

It is obvious that the sculpture by Lisippos is way more accurate than some works of art of later artists, who created their works many centuries after Alexander already died, and nobody knows what was painted on the supposed painting.

That is not many centuries later as Alexander lived in 330BC and it is a depiction of one of his paintings. Your ridiculous theory to claim that you are more Greek than the Greeks is well noted though.

It is just a theory, nobody saw this painting.

BTW, what about the sculpture by Lisippos?
Is it not obvious that the sculpture and the painting show a different person?
We can be sure that the sculpture is genuine, but we cannot be sure about the painting.

Another blatant issue with your logic is that the aforementioned Mosaic is Roman not Greek, did the ethnic-composition of Romans change in the 100BC as well?

Of course it constantly changed! Ancient Greece and ancient Rome were multi ethnic societies, and maybe even multi racial societies. And the ancient paintings prove that.

The sculpture in case you have not noticed does not depict skin colour and the pictures I posted also look European according to you "except for their Med skin" as if the creators of Europe can be contrasted to "European" skin. That is in fact the proper European skin.

Even if we look at the old paintings we can see that South Europe was a melting pot. But what to the contemporary sculpture of Alexander, he had a Caucasian scull. The guy on the Mosaic has a different scull.

Greeks and Italians and Spaniards have always been swarthy with dark hair and dark eyes. 90% of all Greek and Roman art depicts such Med type men, same continues into the Middle-Ages and the modern day, not Nordic type creatures and it makes sense since they wait for it...they live in the Med.

Different tribes lived in these region, there were no Italians or Spaniards 2000 years ago. Even Greeks were rather a culture, they were not homogeneous.

Pompei was a multi racial city, that is what you can see on the ancient paintings.

BTW, the paintings of "Romans" you pasted, lived in Egypt.

British archaeologists uncovered the first of the portraits in the ancient Roman site Tebtunis, located in what's today Umm el-Breigat in the Fayum region of Egypt.

http://now.howstuffworks.com/2016/02/15 ... -portraits

It was a Roman city, situated in Egypt, and it is obvious that the population of this region did not look like today Italians or the ancient Romans that lived in the city Rome or in what today is called Italy.

A German neo-Nazi Nordic supremacist is asking how were the Jews traumatised.

You were talking about Israelis, not about the Jews.

I am not a supremacist, and it is getting old to play the "Nazi-Card" and imply the "German guilt". I did not live in the Third Reich, this state does not exist any more, BRD is a different state, created approximately at the same time, Israel was created.

BRD did not commit any crimes, so what shall I be ashamed of? I can believe or disbelieve the eye witnesses or the historians, that is all.

If I was a supremacists, I would believe that non whites were created to serve the whites, like Ovadia Yosef taught in Israel, and he got the biggest funeral in the history of Israel and was called "our great teacher" by prominent Israeli politicians.

I just think that white Caucasians have the right to preserve their countries, and this is preservationism, not supremacism.

BTW, what about the Nakba?

Are Israelis not ashamed or traumatised because of the Nakba?

Nakba is part of Israeli history, but what happend before 1948 is not part of Israeli history, because there was no Israel before 1948. What happened before 1948 is not part of the history of BRD either, this state was created after WWII.

[noemon]

Yes, but this mosaic was a copy of a painting, and this is only a theory, and nobody saw the painting.

While your theory that Romans painted him swarthy because their ethnic make up had become Middle-Eastern in the 100BC is a better theory.

I do not see any reason for any theory to be construed, ancient Greek & Roman art is the very definition of realism and realistic accuracy was the name of the game, there is no reason to assume that they painted him wrong, unless of course you are some Nordic supremacist who seriously wishes to claim Alexander as a German.

It is obvious that the sculpture by Lisippos gives is way more accurate, than some works of art of later artists, who created their works many centuries after Alexander already died.

The sculpture does not depict his skin colour, your argument is invalid.

Is it not obvious that the sculpture and the painting show a different person?

Not at all they show the same person, the one is profile the other is full face. Their skull is the same.

We can be sure that the sculpture is genuine, but we cannot be sure about the painting.

The only thing we can be certain of is that you are an antisemitic neonazi nordic racist with serious complexes against darker skinned people.

Pompei was a multi racial city, that is what you can see on the ancient paintings.

BTW, the paintings of "Romans" you pasted, lived in Egypt. So yes, Egypt was part of the Roman Empire, these guys were Roman citizens.

And if you knew anything about Greco-Roman society and especially in Egypt you would know that they lived in extreme apartheid with segregated and gated communities for Greeks & Romans as opposed to native Egyptians. These people were urban upper class Greeks and Romans, not Egyptians.

So yes, this painting were excavated in a Roman city, but this city was situated in Egypt, and it is obvious that the population of this region was not European.

This painting is the painting of an ethnic-Roman not an ethnic-Egyptian. Deal with it. That is the face of the original and proper European.

This is from Pompeii 20-40 AD:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_por ... us_001.jpg

"Non-European" ethnic-Greek Boy Eutyches from Greco-Roman Egypt:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mum ... 18.9.2.jpg