A Personal Note - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Classical liberalism. The individual before the state, non-interventionist, free-market based society.
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By Eran
#14435299
I am posting this note to the Libertarianism group because this group had been my "home" for the past few years. Most of the people with whom I debated most frequently are active on this group.

For the past 23 years or so, I have had a career based on being an employee. For most of this period, it was in the financial industry and, for the past 11 years, working as s risk manager, usually for a hedge fund.

Tomorrow is going to be my last day "in the office". My wife and I have purchased a retirement business - boarding kennels in Scotland. We are going to run the business, do some of the work ourselves while employing 4-5 people on either part-time or full-time basis.

Thus I am making a transition from a "wage slave" to an "exploiting capitalist". I am using these Marxist-inspired labels not just for fun, but also because I want to tie the move to another Marxist concept - that of "alienation". In the past several months, as I was planning this transition, I found a sharp difference between the level of care I had for my official, paid job, and the one I felt towards the business I was about to own. I felt alienated from my current job, while being deeply concerned, interested and caring about the new business.

Based on that personal experience, I believe Marxists have got things half-right. It is true that wage labour can be alienating. That people may not necessarily feel any positive emotional attachment towards their job as employees, with both job performance and personal emotional well-being suffering in the process. On the other hand, I don't believe being employed as part of a syndicate would have made much of a difference. Being self-employed, on the other hand, makes a huge difference. It makes you care in ways that, as an employee or even syndicate member, you are unlikely to.

Naturally, in a modern economy, not everybody can be self-employed. Many regulations, tax laws and other government practices (from zoning to corporate welfare measures) make it more difficult to start a new business than it ought to be. [This last statement helps anchor this post to the Libertarianism group]


In any event, I anticipate I will have much less free time, in the near future, to visit these forums. When I do, my first priority will be to reply to any personal messages. I hope to come back and tell more of the experience of running one's own business.

This being a partial good-bye, I would like to thank the many people who responded to my posts over the years, with a particular emphasis to a few who, despite deep disagreements, have maintained a civil conversation and, in the process, taught me much about the issues we discussed and helped me improve my understanding of my own point of view.
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By AFAIK
#14435302
Thanks for sharing Eran. I enjoy reading your insights and social commentaries. I've been meaning to post a reply to your game of cards thread so this has been a good reminder.

Thanks for all the informative and always polite posts you have made here. I learned a lot about libertarianism from you.

Please share any insights or social commentaries you discover in the future as well as your experience on the other side of the means of production (Go Marx!).
By SolarCross
#14435320
On alienation, there is something to it but I don't think there is as much to it as marxists like to make out. They are just using whatever discontent they can find, real or imaginary, for an exploitable advantage in their quest for power, such is my suspicion. I've been self-employed for ten years now and it is psychologically quite a different ball game to employment, more rewarding but also riskier and more demanding of one's initiative and responsibility. Some people really don't want that, they do prefer to play it safe, let others take responsibility and lead the way. Everyone loves to complain but very few want to do anything to remedy the complaint, if they were then they wouldn't be complaining they would be taking action.

Good luck with your new venture. I will miss you as you are certainly among the most intelligent of posters, I fear there will be a noticeable drop in the quality of debate with your absence, don't stay away too much! You have certainly greatly aided my understanding.

All the best.
Last edited by SolarCross on 10 Jul 2014 15:30, edited 1 time in total.
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By Cartertonian
#14435329
Jealous - as - fcuk!!!



My wife and I would love to do something just like that, but we haven't a bean with which to start such an enterprise.

Contrary to what many of our 'libertarian' posters might believe I tend far more toward libertarianism (as a Briton would understand it, before Rothbard et al stole the word) than it may appear and it has often been the weight of your considered and reasonable argument that has influenced my developing views on the matter.

Do please keep us posted with your progress and the very, very best of luck.

User avatar
By AFAIK
#14435350
Cartertonian wrote:Jealous - as - fcuk!!!



My wife and I would love to do something just like that, but we haven't a bean with which to start such an enterprise.

Set up an account on a crowdsourcing site and offer to send postcards to anyone who pledges $5.

Cartertonian wrote:Contrary to what many of our 'libertarian' posters might believe I tend far more toward libertarianism (as a Briton would understand it, before Rothbard et al stole the word) than it may appear and it has often been the weight of your considered and reasonable argument that has influenced my developing views on the matter.

I might share your position. I used to understand libertarian to be an antonym to authoritarian but seeing that many libertarians express no concern about the private ownership of resources or infrastructure in the hands of capitalists I've had to reevaluate.
By layman
#14435356
My wife and I have purchased a retirement business - boarding kennels in Scotland.


Can you post more details ?

You will be missed Eran. You are a very skilled debater.
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By Drlee
#14435387
You may be surprised to hear that I am sad to see you slow down on POFO. You are a skilled and reasonable debater.

Based on that personal experience, I believe Marxists have got things half-right. It is true that wage labour can be alienating. That people may not necessarily feel any positive emotional attachment towards their job as employees, with both job performance and personal emotional well-being suffering in the process. On the other hand, I don't believe being employed as part of a syndicate would have made much of a difference. Being self-employed, on the other hand, makes a huge difference. It makes you care in ways that, as an employee or even syndicate member, you are unlikely to.


As someone who has been self-employed for over 20 years I understand this very well. It has been my experience too. I hope that you will consider this when dealing with your employees. You have a great advantage over US entrepreneurs as your government will be caring for the health of your employees and sparing you the necessity. And it is a necessity for you to be involved in the personal lives of your employees. You will see. You are, at least in part, responsible for giving them a path to the opportunities you now enjoy. If you are a good "boss" you will be their friend, their mentor and at least to some extent their hope. If you live up to this responsibility they will do you proud. If you don't....well you said it already.

What a great retirement job Eran. I applaud you for following your dream. Good luck and come back to give me hell now and again.
By anticlimacus
#14435394
Sad to see you go...best wishes and thanks for the thoughtful debates over the years. Hopefully we'll see you on the boards sooner than later.
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By fuser
#14435402
I hope your workers won't revolt and seize your business.

(Just Kidding, now time for a serious message :)

Good luck Eran and have a wonderful Retirement.
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By Lexington
#14435663
Eran wrote:In any event, I anticipate I will have much less free time, in the near future, to visit these forums. When I do, my first priority will be to reply to any personal messages. I hope to come back and tell more of the experience of running one's own business.


I'm not a libertarian but I have appreciated many of your contributions to the forum and I wish you absolutely the best. It sounds like you have a great life ahead of you.

Lex
User avatar
By Joe Liberty
#14435896
Congratulations and good luck, Eran. You've been my favorite poster so I'm unhappy that there will be less of you to read around here, but I'm excited for your new adventure.
By Pants-of-dog
#14435923
I have no dogs in Scotland, or anywhere else for that matter, but if I can help you out in your retirement in any way, let me know.

I hope you do not disappear completely. Thank you for the many hours of debating.
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By nucklepunche
#14441258
Based on that personal experience, I believe Marxists have got things half-right. It is true that wage labour can be alienating. That people may not necessarily feel any positive emotional attachment towards their job as employees, with both job performance and personal emotional well-being suffering in the process. On the other hand, I don't believe being employed as part of a syndicate would have made much of a difference. Being self-employed, on the other hand, makes a huge difference. It makes you care in ways that, as an employee or even syndicate member, you are unlikely to.

Naturally, in a modern economy, not everybody can be self-employed. Many regulations, tax laws and other government practices (from zoning to corporate welfare measures) make it more difficult to start a new business than it ought to be. [This last statement helps anchor this post to the Libertarianism group].


Although I am not quite a libertarian, I do support capitalism, but I've made note of this insight as well myself. I've been working for wages my whole working life. I've always yearned for an escape from this. I'm thinking in another roughly five years I will be at the place where I can possibly do so and cannot wait. I too recognize how alienated one can become working to make somebody else rich.

Like you I recognize not everybody can be self-employed or has the desire to do so. However I believe the current regulatory environment tends toward favoring big business and when big business has greater market share they can treat their employees worse. As they "set the tone" of competition smaller companies which would like to treat employees better cannot afford to do so.

In the end it takes quite a bit of starting capital to start a business. While its easier in some industries than others starting capital remains the main barrier. Due to zoning laws commercial real estate is artificially limited and thus driven up in cost. Due to licensing laws some jobs are protected but it becomes harder for the poor to break into them etc. These are legitimate critiques libertarians have focused on the modern regulatory state.

These things being said I part from libertarianism in that I don't believe reform necessarily means throwing it all away altogether. I do think some jobs are better left unlicensed and shoddy work should be punished in the marketplace. Examples include house painters, hairdressers, locksmiths, casket makers among other occupations which are commonly licensed but should not be. It varies by state to state with some being less licensed than others. To me this is a benefit of Federalism in that states can compete tobe more business friendly. On the other hand I do think you need some regulations.

I am glad there is a nuclear regulatory agency so not just anybody can set up a "mom and pop" nuclear reactor. I'm glad there are regulations against dumping poisonous industrial runoff into the water. I'm glad doctors, airline pilots and others we are asked to trust our lives to are licensed. As a general rule I think if somebody risks losing life or limb it makes sense to license or regulate a business. If loss to life or limb is not at stake I think the state should simply let the market punish poorly run businesses. These things being said where libertarianism goes wrong is that while recognizing the problems inherent with the regulatory state, they would for the most part even let industries like nuclear power, coal mining and others with possibly dangerous externalities regulate themselves. This is where I break from libertarianism.
By Nunt
#14441466
nucklepunche wrote: they would for the most part even let industries like nuclear power, coal mining and others with possibly dangerous externalities regulate themselves. This is where I break from libertarianism.

This is a common misconception about libertarianism. Libertarianism is not "everything is allowed". Libertarianism is the non agression principle. By this principle, if there are externalitities (meaning: others are (likely) to be damaged by your activities) then those externalities would be severely limited. An unsafe nuclear reactor near a town violates the NAP because it (potentially) damages the property rights of the townspeople.

Libertarianism is not about "everything goes".
Libertarianism: "The safety problem of a nuclear reactor is solved by negotiating between the owner of the reactor and those who are affected by a potential failure".
Government: "The safety problem of a nuclear reactor is solved by government weighing the political desirability of the regulations. In such a case the government may just as well give a permit to pollute and to violate property rights instead of protecting the safety of the townspeople".

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