[jessupjonesjnr87]

I have found it hard in the past to take Libertarians seriously but I have come to realise in recent times that their extremist views are like a mirror for just how wretchedly oppressive America has become. It's like a battered wife becoming a feminist, the cause is misguided and unreasonable but the motive is understandable.
The day they introduced colour coded terrorist alert status's I knew the yanks were fucked.

[mum]

I have found it hard in the past to take Libertarians seriously but I have come to realise in recent times that their extremist views are like a mirror for just how wretchedly oppressive America has become. It's like a battered wife becoming a feminist, the cause is misguided and unreasonable but the motive is understandable.
The day they introduced colour coded terrorist alert status's I knew the yanks were fucked.

What about the cause for libertarianism is misguided and unreasonable in particular ?
The rest of your post I broadly agree with.

[jessupjonesjnr87]

There's just too many people on this planet for everyone to just start winging it. We need some kind of organised co-operation or realistically everything will turn to chaos. The problem with libertarians in the US is that they know this but have the attitude that they are entitled to some kind of special treatment because they live in remote areas, but If these areas did start receiving special treatment and exclusion from state laws they wouldn't remain remote for long.
As I said already libertarianism's extremes are only a reflection of the extreme oppression in America, neither side is reasonable.

[mum]

There's just too many people on this planet for everyone to just start winging it. We need some kind of organised co-operation or realistically everything will turn to chaos. The problem with libertarians in the US is that they know this but have the attitude that they are entitled to some kind of special treatment because they live in remote areas, but If these areas did start receiving special treatment and exclusion from state laws they wouldn't remain remote for long.
As I said already libertarianism's extremes are only a reflection of the extreme oppression in America, neither side is reasonable.

I don't know whether you care or not but libertarian alternatives to every govt service has been discussed in detail throughout this forum. I recommend searching this subforum. I also recommend searching for posts by Eran, with notable contributions from all the libertarians here.

I can't speak for US libertarians but the libertarians I know are distinctly unique in that they do not have any kind of entitlement attitude, it is the opposite that is true. Libertarians fiercely oppose entitlement that results in property being taken from some and given to others.

Libertarians generally do not expect any meaningful changes in their lifetime, it is simply a hope. A libertarian societyrequires most members to broadly agree with the principle that stealing and other forms of aggression are wrong. In a way we are getting there. In western countries monarchy and authoritarian rule, racism, women's lack of rights, slavery etc are all a thing of the embarrassing past (for most people, and broadly speaking). We slowly move on. If you look all over the globe there are examples of certain aspects of privately owned services that are government monopolies in other places. Private security, road building, welfare, schooling etc. It is not hard to imagine that as time goes on more of these private alternatives will exist in the same place and at the same time.

So yes it is extreme to most people. I don't think it is unreasonable and it has a lot going for it morally and economically.

[SolarCross]

As I said already libertarianism's extremes are only a reflection of the extreme oppression in America, neither side is reasonable.

American libertarians are leading the way in this age, but the cause of liberty has old roots that can be found almost everywhere. The oppression in America is to be found in different flavours, to different degrees, with different emphasis everywhere else in the world throughout all history. Do you see the cause of Irish republicanism vs the British monarchy as a battered wife turned feminist?

[Nunt]

We need some kind of organised co-operation or realistically everything will turn to chaos. .

This is exactly what libertarians are in favor of: organized cooperation (individuals working together within a set of rules that are the same for everyone) instead the current anarchy where there's one set of rules for the people and another set of rules for each group that manages to claim the title of government.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

Then the market will decide that won't it

Financial services for sure, but also letter box companies for just about every other business possible. Internet companies of all descriptions comes to mind as well.

So the plan is to be a parasite on the productive economies, by exploiting tax avoidance methods?

[mum]

There is no plan so that's a silly way to phrase it.

It's not parasitic, it is creating an environment where business can be more productive. If businesses can be more productive than everyone benefits, especially the consumers of the products of the business.