[Dr House]

Cheap driving is the reason why the cost of our goods remains low.

We have a 40% corporate tax. Cut it and our goods will be even cheaper.

Cheap driving is why the country is navigable.

Bad argument. More expensive driving will just push people to navigate the country in more efficient (and more fuel-efficient) ways, such as trains or buses. (and companies to stop transporting goods by truck and start moving them by train)

For the sake of argument, give me a list of "programs and regulations" you'd cut out, and the sources of external revenue to pay for what's left.

Let's see. SEC, FCC, USDA, FDA, DEA, FEMA, Dept. of Commerce, Dept. of homeland security, Dept. of Education, Medicare, the National Endowment of the Arts, the FBI (internal law enforcement is state jurisdiction, not federal) and all subsidies to agriculture and industry, and every military base we got in other countries, just for starters. I would eventually, economic conditions permitting, phase out Medicaid, social security and most welfare. I'd leave subsidized worker re-training and temporary unemployment insurance.

As for tax revenue, I would replace all taxes with a land value tax, external tariffs and in the interest of keeping the budget balanced in the initial stages of my reform, a consumption tax with a rebate for necessities (the FairTax). I would eventually look to eliminate the latter.

Yunno, now I'm kinda surprised I got a lower PC score than you.

[Goranhammer]

We have a 40% corporate tax. Cut it and our goods will be even cheaper.

Completely agree, although unrelated.

Bad argument. More expensive driving will just push people to navigate the country in more efficient (and more fuel-efficient) ways, such as trains or buses. (and companies to stop transporting goods by truck and start moving them by train)

That falls into my argument about population density. You can't expect buses and trains to effectively cater to rural or even suburban areas. The only way that would work is if urban sprawl was completely reversed.

The most valued product in America now is time. Deadlines require individuals, companies, and service providers to be self-sufficient and rely on their own. Commerce would suffer by forcing them into an unfavorable timetable in order to cater to mass transit.

Let's see. SEC, FCC, USDA, FDA, DEA, FEMA, Dept. of Commerce, Dept. of homeland security, Dept. of Education, Medicare, the National Endowment of the Arts, the FBI (internal law enforcement is state jurisdiction, not federal) and all subsidies to agriculture and industry, and every military base we got in other countries, just for starters. I would eventually, economic conditions permitting, phase out Medicaid, social security and most welfare. I'd leave subsidized worker re-training and temporary unemployment insurance.

I'd probably agree with about half of those. However, with some, how would you expect minimal requirements to be met? The FBI is needed because there still needs to be an arm of the law meant to protect a centralized system. The SEC is very important to make sure ethics are enforced with trading. Without FEMA, we wouldn't care about black people.

There's no doubt that tons of pork exists in all you've listed, but what we need is a reform, not a removal.

As for tax revenue, I would replace all taxes with a land value tax, external tariffs and in the interest of keeping the budget balanced in the initial stages of my reform, a consumption tax with a rebate for necessities (the FairTax). I would eventually look to eliminate the latter.

I'm against the first, incredibly against the second, but for the third.

Yunno, now I'm kinda surprised I got a lower PC score than you.

Retake it. You got much lower on the L/A axis than I did. I always have a positive number. I guess fascism is pretty good.

[Dr House]

Retake it.

I did. First time I got 5.75 ( up from 5.68 ) and the second, 2 months later, I got 6.62.

I guess fascism is pretty good.

You're not fascist, just conservative. I'm a die-hard libertine, which is why I have made a point not to support the GOP.

That falls into my argument about population density. You can't expect buses and trains to effectively cater to rural or even suburban areas. The only way that would work is if urban sprawl was completely reversed.

Which is a good thing. higher population densities are more efficient in many ways. And they're not as uncomfortable as you might think, I grew up in a country with a pop. density of 1,115 people per square mile.

Besides, buses can run into the suburbs. I live in the suburbs, and until about 3 months ago I commuted from the city to the 'burbs (weird, ain't it?) to work. I haven't needed a car since i got here.

The FBI is needed because there still needs to be an arm of the law meant to protect a centralized system.

So slash the budget, then.

The SEC is very important to make sure ethics are enforced with trading.

What ethics? The only regulation needed in stock trading is a ban on fraudulent reporting. And that can be settled by civil courts, an oversight agency isn't needed.

I'm against the first, incredibly against the second, but for the third.

Why? Land taxes can't cause deadweight supply losses, the supply of land is fixed. I'm against import tariffs as well, but between external and internal taxes external ones are a lesser evil.As long as we keep them at a flat rate of less than 25%, it should be fine.

[Goranhammer]

You're not fascist, just conservative. I'm a die-hard libertine, which is why I have made a point not to support the GOP.

I'm still very much libertarian. I think my econ score is higher because I don't view big business as inherently evil, something I'm not completely sold on you agreeing with. I just get a positive L/A score because I support defined law and think breaking it carries stiff punishment.

Which is a good thing. higher population densities are more efficient in many ways. And they're not as uncomfortable as you might think, I grew up in a country with a pop. density of 1,115 people per square mile.

Not arguing with the efficiency necessarily, just the implementation. We still lose efficiency if we centralize populations and create lots of unused arable land. Americans pride themselves on time and freedom, and becoming dependent on public transportation and their laws and boundaries is something we're just not ready to do, especially myself.

It should be a benefit to live out in the sticks, but it shouldn't be forced by economics to be disallowed.

Besides, buses can run into the suburbs. I live in the suburbs, and until about 3 months ago I commuted from the city to the 'burbs (weird, ain't it?) to work. I haven't needed a car since i got here.

If I want to go to the store and get a bottle of Jack right now, I'm going to get a bottle of Jack. I'm not gonna check a fucking bus schedule to see how long it takes for me to get fucking wasted. If I want to hit the KFC for a 2 piece and a biscuit, I want to go when I'm hungry, not when the bus decides it's ready to leave.

So slash the budget, then.

Done.

What ethics? The only regulation needed in stock trading is a ban on fraudulent reporting. And that can be settled by civil courts, an oversight agency isn't needed.

More than that. Determining if it's subject to capital gains tax. Determining if it's being illegally used in a shelter. There's a whole bunch of grey area in these things.

Cut, however. In pretty much every case, a cut at minimum.

Land taxes can't cause deadweight supply losses, the supply of land is fixed.

It's not a horrible idea. Maybe if they were kept incredibly low and that tax buys a guarantee that Eminent Domain is rendered illegal on that property.

I'm against import tariffs as well, but between external and internal taxes external ones are a lesser evil.As long as we keep them at a flat rate of less than 25%, it should be fine.

This is where you lose econ points. I'm under strict belief about the maximization of net export gain through unfettered free trade. I guess fools like me who think that perfect symmetry can exist are dinosaurs, about to die out.

[Maxim Litvinov]

Lysistrata?

[Dr House]

Determining if it's subject to capital gains tax.

Nonexistent.

Determining if it's being illegally used in a shelter.

A tax shelter? We're not charging direct taxes, remember?

that tax buys a guarantee that Eminent Domain is rendered illegal on that property.

Fuck I forgot to mention that. I would end any and all eminent domain. The government would only be entitled to seize your property in the event of unpaid taxes.

This is where you lose econ points. I'm under strict belief about the maximization of net export gain through unfettered free trade.

I agree, I am not against free trade. This is not about protectionism, it's about funding the government in the cheapest, least oppressive way possible. And a low tax rate on imports fits the bill nicely. The Bahamas and the Cayman Islands charge no direct taxes, but they both charge steep import taxes to cover the difference. The revenue, like you said, has to come from somewhere.

I think my econ score is higher because I don't view big business as inherently evil, something I'm not completely sold on you agreeing with.

You're right, I'm quite suspicious of big business. I believe that the recipe to ending their dominance is to end all regulations, taxes and barriers to entry and to end the Fiat and fractional-reserve banking.

[Goranhammer]

Well, I'm sold. You can be my Vice President.

[Dr House]

Well, I'm sold. You can be my Vice President.

I believe you got that backwards.

[Goranhammer]

I'm closer to 35 than you are.

[Dr House]

Come to think of it, I'd say I'll leave the presidency to you, and I'll work on implementing reforms as governor of Puerto Rico. Once they're ready we we can gain independence from the US and I'll be the first President of the Republic of PR.

[Goranhammer]

Remind me to nuke you.

[Rancid]

Since the government hardly heeds protests anymore, then just stop paying taxes and instead give the money to local social organizations and to others that you feel deserve the money. I think tax resistance is the most effective means of stopping warmongers.

The fair tax would allow you to easily stop giving the government money...

[Dr House]

Remind me to nuke you.

Why? I'm not gonna spearhead a communist nation. Besides, I already made an alliance with Stalker for when he becomes president of Russia. Russia still has a 30,000-nuke stockpile.

[Goranhammer]

I'll say the same thing to you I said to my girlfriend: You can't leave me. I'll kill you first.

[Dr House]

And where is your girlfriend now?

[Goranhammer]

If I ain't gonna tell the cops, what the hell makes you think I'll tell you?

[Oxymoron]

I support any move to not pay tax's or pay less of them if that means stopping the war,or having the white house painted pink then so be it.