[noemon]

Ask yourself some questions ... Was Ukraine ever a threat to Russia ?

Evidently. Nato is a threat to Russia and Ukraine attempting to join NATO poses a huge security risk for Russia, indeed, quite unlike other Soviet or non states as Ukraine has always been a full integral part of the Russian industrial-military-nuclear-naval family.

The blatantly obvious answer to this question is NO, so then the next question is WHY did Russia attack and invade Ukraine. ?

Russia was told to pack up and leave Sevastopol, its 300 year old Naval Headquarters.

The US attacks countries for far less than it being told to leave its sovereign naval headquarters.

[Tainari88]

Evidently. Nato is a threat to Russia and Ukraine atempting to join NATO poses a huge security risk for Russia, indeed, quite unlike other Soviet or non states as Ukraine has always a full integral part of the Russian industrial-military-nuclear-naval family.



Russia was told to pack up and leave Sevastopol, its 300 year old Naval Headquarters.

The US attacks countries for far less than it being told to leave its sovereign naval headquarters.

The US still has its old naval headquarters in Guatanamo Bay Cuba. Imagine the Russians telling the US it needs to close up Gitmo or else?

NATO though is being used to make sure the EU is hobbled strategically Noemon. if they can get EU to spend and they keep dragging out this war? it is going to hopefully drag down Russia and slow down the PRC for a bit. Enough for the USA to come up with more plans to control the lead in their own heads.

[QatzelOk]

...Imagine the Russians telling the US it needs to close up Gitmo or else?...

I have never seen this on TV, so I can't imagine it.

On TV, the Russian-accented people are always bad guys who lose because of their evil incompetence.

[FiveofSwords]

I have never seen this on TV, so I can't imagine it.

On TV, the Russian-accented people are always bad guys who lose because of their evil incompetence.

This is one of the funny quirks about western propaganda. All of our geopolitical enemies are portrayed as some fake Hitler archetype: that is, they are totally a threat to global security and to 'democracy' but at the same time they are so insane and incompetent that you could not imagine how they became such a threat. Logically it is a contradiction but normies never notice that.

It reminds me of a hilarious scene in the 'captain planet' cartoon. One time the enemy was literally Hitler and captain planet was powerless to stop him because in the presence of Hitler's extreme vile racism all the superpower of captain planet was just sucked out.

[QatzelOk]

...All of our geopolitical enemies are portrayed as some fake Hitler archetype: that is, they are totally a threat to global security and to 'democracy' but at the same time they are so insane and incompetent that you could not imagine how they became such a threat. Logically it is a contradiction but normies never notice that...

This is because of normies, as you call them, are dicated to by mass media which is controlled by banksters and organized crime.

Evil Slavic, [url=This is one of the funny quirks about western propaganda.]Arabic[/url] and Dark-skinned characters in movie after movie... is one of the reasons why we brainwashed Western serfs are always willing to kill our fellow man.

So the brainwashed "normal" of suburban SUV-land... is one of the reasons why Americans automatically side with Ukraine (and whomever else they're programmed to side with).

[skinster]

And I don't blame Noam Chomsky for being a fallible human being who has great ideas every once in a while. I blame the messiah-seekers for trying to turn people like him (and Elvis Presley, and Kurt Cobain, and Michael Jackson, and John Kerry...) into messiahs, when they are just ordinary people.

Michael Jackson was a saint tho and still is, insofar as his service to the people. I learned this when investigating the silly allegations against him by money-hungry people.

[QatzelOk]

Michael Jackson was a saint tho and still is, insofar as his service to the people. I learned this when investigating the silly allegations against him by money-hungry people.

Like all the fake messiahs of commercial media, Michael Jackson was killed by his own manufactured messiah-hood.

This does not mean that he was not a good person. Just that whatever good he did (as himself) was erased and hidden by the commodification of his music and fake persona.

Domesticated animals that we are, we crowds of alienated humans also tend to destroy the lives of our messiah mill, and this destructive process enriches the usual suspects.

Ukraine, Ukrainians, and the current Ukrainian regime... have all been "messiah-ed" by Western propaganda.

soundtrack

[skinster]

Like all the fake messiahs of commercial media, Michael Jackson was killed by his own manufactured messiah-hood.

This does not mean that he was not a good person. Just that whatever good he did (as himself) was erased and hidden by the commodification of his music and fake persona.

I spent literal months researching on the many accusations against him about child abuse and what I found was that he was a saint and the tons of great things he did were never advertised or sold by him, in fact, he would keep silent about what he would do, would use other names, want no attention for such etc. He was a great egg and inspired millions for the better..

[QatzelOk]

I spent literal months researching on the many accusations against him about child abuse and what I found was that he was a saint and the tons of great things he did were never advertised or sold by him, in fact, he would keep silent about what he would do, would use other names, want no attention for such etc. He was a great egg and inspired millions for the better..

People could "do their own research" on a lot of famous and infamous people and find out that they had been lied to all their lives by entertainment media.

Gaddafi comes to mind. (entertainment prefers Daffy Duck)

The Castro brothers come to mind. (entertainment prefers the Cohen brothers)

And many cultures comes to mind like Iranian, Mexican, and North African (entertainment prefers white Europeans with money)

Entertainment provides a lie-scape that is vast and important in maintaining our current capitalist system and unrelenting colonial attitudes.

[blackvegetable]

Evidently. Nato is a threat to Russia and Ukraine attempting to join NATO poses a huge security risk for Russia, indeed, quite unlike other Soviet or non states as Ukraine has always been a full integral part of the Russian industrial-military-nuclear-naval family.



Russia was told to pack up and leave Sevastopol, its 300 year old Naval Headquarters.

The US attacks countries for far less than it being told to leave its sovereign naval headquarters.

Russia was told to pack up and leave Sevastopol, its 300 year old Naval Headquarters.

That's silly...Pootie had already occupied Crimea.

The base was under lease.

[noemon]

NATO and Ukraine still want Crimea, it's very silly indeed.

[Rugoz]

"The Crimea is not a disputed territory...Russia has long recognized the borders of today's Ukraine...We have an agreement with Ukraine on stationing our fleet there until 2017, and we will be guided by it." Putin, 2008.

Yet, when Putin took Crimea in 2014, nobody in the West really gave a damn, despite the gross violation of international law. In fact if Putin didn't start a war in the Donbas at the same time, he might have gotten away with not even a slap on the wrist.

Given NATO can literally close off the black sea, I also wonder of what value this glorified base is supposed to have, in particular for NATO. For Russia it is somewhat useful for terrorizing its neighbors, Ukraine and Georgia. When Russia invaded Georgia in 2008, it launched a naval blockade, as it did with Ukraine in 2022. The blockade has since been broken, by a country with no navy to speak of.

Currently, Crimea is a major staging ground for the war in Southern Ukraine, and therefore, its Russian military installations are rightfully attacked. That goes without saying.

[noemon]

Currently you and others as well as the US are still arguing that only when Russian abandons Crimea will they sign peace with Russia.

It goes without saying that this is hybris, senselessly stupid warmongering.

[Rugoz]

My position has always been very clear. Ukraine should trade occupied territory for peace, IF the rest of Ukraine can join NATO, or gets security guarantees equally effective at deterring Russia. Otherwise a "peace agreement" is nothing but a prelude to the next invasion.

[blackvegetable]

NATO and Ukraine still want Crimea, it's very silly indeed.

Of course Ukraine wants it....it's Ukraine's. NATO has no use for a port on the Black Sea - it's a bathtub.

Pootie didn't need to run to Kiev to secure what he had already taken. This isn't about Sevastopol. It's about the Donbas...a land grab.

[blackvegetable]

Currently you and others as well as the US are still arguing that only when Russian abandons Crimea will they sign peace with Russia.

It goes without saying that this is hybris, senselessly stupid warmongering.

There was "peace" with Russia post 2014.

Pootie's ambitions expanded. If he steals the Donbas, he can pay for the occupation.

[blackvegetable]

My position has always been very clear. Ukraine should trade occupied territory for peace, IF the rest of Ukraine can join NATO, or gets security guarantees equally effective at deterring Russia. Otherwise a "peace agreement" is nothing but a prelude to the next invasion.

It's like suggesting Texas surrender the Permian Basin to stop the "invasion at the southern border". Ukraine is "the breadbasket" of Europe, a major source of canola (critical to Africa), and Pootie is literally stealing it.

As long as Ukranians consider the sacrifice worth the prize, we should give them everything they need. They have been making excellent use of it so far. We have never spent defense dollars as effectively as we have in Ukraine. It will take Pootie a decade to rebuild his military, and it will be at an enormous cost given sanctions.

It has also allowed us to learn about the effectiveness of our weapons and tactics, their vulnerabilities, and the countermeasures available to neutralize them.

[noemon]

Putin is "literally stealing" Russia's 300 year old sovereign naval base.

Putin is "literally stealing" an area inhabited by 99% ethnic-Russians who vote the Russian candidate in Ukraine ever since the "independence".

Meanwhile America liberated Iraq, Libya, Syria and is now wanting to liberate Donbass and Crimea from the natives.

The comical thing is not uncle Sam's imperialism, but the justifications some people actually blurt out.

This isn't about Sevastopol.

Are you saying you recognise Sevastopol as Russian?

[Rancid]

My position has always been very clear. Ukraine should trade occupied territory for peace, IF the rest of Ukraine can join NATO, or gets security guarantees equally effective at deterring Russia. Otherwise a "peace agreement" is nothing but a prelude to the next invasion.

In the end, it should be for Ukraine to decide if that is what they want. That said, Putin wouldn't accept such an offer because even if he gets to kept only a part of Ukraine. His next goal would be to make sure that the remainder of Ukraine becomes a failed state (which is why he went after Kyiv at the start). NATO and EU membership would make that harder to do.

[paeng]

My position has always been very clear. Ukraine should trade occupied territory for peace, IF the rest of Ukraine can join NATO, or gets security guarantees equally effective at deterring Russia. Otherwise a "peace agreement" is nothing but a prelude to the next invasion.

The same NATO kept dangling the membership carrot at Ukraine, and at one point even wanted Russia to join:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... join-nato/