[QatzelOk]

Technology is when you take science and capitalism and put them together.

Exactly.

"Science" gives mankind the ability to understand his environment, and the profit-motive (capitalism) gives him the incentive to make changes to the environment in order to profit from these changes.... whatever the long-term cost to other humans, the future, or the ecosystems.

One of the most important technologies throughout techno-history... is propaganda. Only through propaganda can you get humanity to accept environmental-degradation... by getting humans to focus on the future utopias that the new technology can provide "with only 24 easy monthly payments! Ask your dealer for more information!"

[Beren]

The importance of propaganda just can't be overemphasized, comrades. Propaganda and espionage, comrades.

At least half the posters on every online forum must be our people, comrades.

The economy? Down with the petrodollar!

That's all for today, comrades.

[QatzelOk]

The importance of propaganda just can't be overemphasized, comrades. Propaganda and espionage, comrades.

At least half the posters on every online forum must be our people, comrades.

The economy? Down with the petrodollar!

That's all for today, comrades.

That humanity is degrading its environment to the point of extinction demonstrates how harmful all the propaganda of the last 5000 years has been. It could be species ending, it's so powerful and false.

[Unthinking Majority]

1. I have studied First Nations history, and it compares favorably to European cultures in terms of being "less obedient."

Example: Under the vote system in First Nations, if three out of ten people vote AGAINST going to war, they don't have to go.

In Europe, the modern way was to force everyone to "go along" with the majority vote. This creates a deep social obedience.

Firstly, First Nations aren't one group, they're made up of a large array of different societies, many with differing political systems.

Also, what % of men in pre-modern indigenous societies beat their female mates and children into compliance like every other pre-modern society that's ever existed? Were women free to make decisions around sex, or were many raped and the men were able to get away with it because they were less obedient to "rules" and "human rights".

[Beren]

That humanity is degrading its environment to the point of extinction demonstrates how harmful all the propaganda of the last 5000 years has been. It could be species ending, it's so powerful and false.

That's exactly what propagandists think. The importance of propaganda just can't be overemphasized, comrades.

[QatzelOk]

Also, what % of men in pre-modern indigenous societies beat their female mates and children into compliance like every other pre-modern society that's ever existed? Were women free to make decisions around sex, or were many raped and the men were able to get away with it because they were less obedient to "rules" and "human rights".

You have obviously never studied the history of First Nations lifestyles. In Quebec, we are lucky to have had an anthropologist-journalist named Serge Bouchard who spent most of his adult life telling the history of various First Nations in North America - particularly those 39 nations that France had alliances with.

Women were central, and men were peripheral. Women were not expected to be monogamous as they were expected to choose partners what would strenghten the band.

In my part of North America, the forest was a woman, because the forest created life.

Your tales of child-beating and woman-beating are based on the acquired racism of the False History that we grew up with.

[Unthinking Majority]

You have obviously never studied the history of First Nations lifestyles. In Quebec, we are lucky to have had an anthropologist-journalist named Serge Bouchard who spent most of his adult life telling the history of various First Nations in North America - particularly those 39 nations that France had alliances with.

Women were central, and men were peripheral. Women were not expected to be monogamous as they were expected to choose partners what would strenghten the band.

In my part of North America, the forest was a woman, because the forest created life.

Your tales of child-beating and woman-beating are based on the acquired racism of the False History that we grew up with.

This doesn't answer my question at all. And also just sounds like propaganda.

[Deutschmania]

@Negotiator It comes from both technology and Capitalism. Capitalism spurs innovation.

Lesson 4: How Incentives Affect Innovation
Under capitalism, innovation has become one of the key strategies firms adopt in order to survive in the competitive environment of the market. The result is that innovative activity in capitalist economies is much more pervasive and innovations spread more quickly than in non-market economies.
https://www.fte.org/teachers/teacher-re ... 0economies.

No, it is necessity that is the mother of invention , not the profit motive. There is much public funded research and development. And many technological advances have stemmed from the Soviet Union. Fully automated luxury communism is the wave of the future. No longer does humanity need to be in bondage to capital. Instead all shall be free to develop according to their personal aptitude , rather than their market value. https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/mar/18/fully-automated-luxury-communism-robots-employment , https://www.epi.org/publication/bp338-public-investments/ , https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/10-greastest-inventions-made-by-the-soviet-union.html , https://people.umass.edu/dmkotz/Soc_and_Innovation_02.pdf

[late]

No, it is necessity that is the mother of invention, not the profit motive.

It's both, it's always been both. In Renaissance Italy, they had international trade, but sophisticated financial instruments made it possible to do a lot more trade.

[Deutschmania]

It's both, it's always been both. In Renaissance Italy, they had international trade, but sophisticated financial instruments made it possible to do a lot more trade.

What trade? I was referring to production , not commerce. Also , at the time of primitive communism there wasn't money , and under free communism there one again shall be a gift economy. https://squareup.com/us/en/the-bottom-line/managing-your-finances/a-history-of-the-trade-and-barter-system , https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/15/living-without-money-what-i-learned

[QatzelOk]

Obedient Animals: Drivers



The driver is strapped to a styrofoam seat, where he can't move very much. Animals can't burn many calories when they are restrained. And this restarint is a mandatory part of being a driver - obedience is obtained through the leash (and the radio propaganda).

The driver waits for lights to change color, at which point he can push a pedal to feel g-force thrills. He reacts like plankton does to light. When his g-force thrill is delayed, he will touch the middle of the steering wheel to cause other people pain.

In the process, the complexity of the human mind is narrowed down to that of a plant chemical reaction (photosynthesis) and the thrill of a young virgin teen on a rollercoaster for the first time (g-force thrills). Even wise older adults are dumbed down and rendered obedient by the overwhelming technology that the driver is tied to by seatbelt and traffic rules.

The driver has no social presence whatsoever. He is just a dangerous machine that is best avoided by passers-by. So the driver loses his social skills, much like any caged animal does. This leads him to fear spontaneous social interaction, preferring the predictable boredom of his isolated cave (suburban home). Like an obedient dog, he scurries home alone and watches screens.

Silently, without words or social interaction, the driver g-forces his way home, reacting to lights, and then slithers into his own cave to watch screens alone and react to them.

Live has never been more passive. Lab mice could relate to the driver's lifestyle.

[late]

What trade? I was referring to production , not commerce.

After you design an improved telescope, then you have to sell it, the way Galileo did. He did it to have the money he needed to study the solar system with his new scopes.

In capitalism, it's both, it's always been both.

[Deutschmania]

After you design an improved telescope, then you have to sell it, the way Galileo did. He did it to have the money he needed to study the solar system with his new scopes.

In capitalism, it's both, it's always been both.

I am not referring to the context of capitalism though. Also, when the wheel was invented , in the stone age, it wasn't sold, as money hadn't been developed yet. https://www.thoughtco.com/the-invention-of-the-wheel-1992669 , https://www.thoughtco.com/history-of-money-1992150

[QatzelOk]

After you design an improved telescope, then you have to sell it, the way Galileo did. He did it to have the money he needed to study the solar system with his new scopes.

In capitalism, it's both, it's always been both.

Yes, while fighting against the ignorance of the Catholic Church, Galileo was able to create a new technology that the 1% could use to turn everyone else into cattle through space weapons.

I'm sure he's spinning in his grave right now, like all inventors who had idealistic notions of progress.

Or maybe he was just an obedient servant of the rich and he knew it. His obedience to the rich allowed him to create new weapons for them to use against the less obedient.

[Rancid]

@QatzelOk, I just need you to be a good little worker bee.

[late]

I am not referring to the context of capitalism though. Also, when the wheel was invented , in the stone age, it wasn't sold, as money hadn't been developed yet. https://www.thoughtco.com/the-invention-of-the-wheel-1992669 , https://www.thoughtco.com/history-of-money-1992150

While there have been cultures without money, you are talking about a culture with money..

[ingliz]

@Deutschmania, you are putting the cart before the horse. Yes, social institutions, norms, ideas, and beliefs have a reciprocal relationship with the material world. But you can't build a superstructure without the base. You can dream, and dreaming will take you so far. Still, it's the economic base that is the foundation on which everything else rests.

[Deutschmania]

@Deutschmania, you are putting the cart before the horse. Yes, social institutions, norms, ideas, and beliefs have a reciprocal relationship with the material world. But you can't build a superstructure without the base. You can dream, and dreaming will take you so far. Still, it's the economic base that is the foundation on which everything else rests.

I was referring to a hypothetical time in the indefinite future. One in which I rather doubt I shall live to see. As I am not an an-com , I of course feel that material conditions must be appropriate for free communism to be established. I have watched whole videos on what had happened in Vietnam when they tried to prematurely do away with the market economy, before the Doi Moi Reforms , with its socialist oriented market economy. Let's just say it wasn't a pretty sight.

[QatzelOk]

I propose that Maslowe's Needs Ladder was actually formulated as an accurate chart of what non-slaves try to accomplish with their lives. Maslowe may have been a non-slave, but the vast majority of the people around him are not, so his Ladder might not be very useful for most of the people who made his food, shined his shoes, cleaned his house, or repaired his many gadgets.

I propose the following as a more realistic group of Ladders that cover both Maslowe's non-slave identity group, and most other groups who are much more obedient because they have no choice:

[skinster]

Fully automated luxury communism is the wave of the future.

No.