[Patrickov]

The world needs a 'break' from us that lasts several million years. It's been estimated that the Earth's ecosystem will require at least five million years to recover from what we've done to it. A couple of generations is completely meaningless.

Things can change a lot in 5 million years, and believing that things could be what we perceive should be in pre-industrial times in 5 million years is just another kind of human-centric thinking.

[Steve_American]

Oh yes it does.

Commercial media acts as if it's normal that rich countries have a deficit in economic good years. And they have stayed away from "noticing this" for my entire life.

Result:

It makes no sense to borrow money when you are doing well economically, UNLESS banksters are forcing the hand of your government in order to create debt slaves.

I asked you for your plan to pay-off the US national debt.
You have relied twice with no plan.

Maybe you think that just balancing the budget will make a difference.

I really don't see that it makes much difference with the current debt of $30 T.

Balancing the budget still requires the current debt to be rolled over forever, or paid down or paid-off.
And the interest paid, too
.

[Steve_American]

Things can change a lot in 5 million years, and believing that things could be what we perceive should be in pre-industrial times in 5 million years is just another kind of human-centric thinking.

Also, for all others.

IMHO, 1000 years from now is not my problem.
I'm having enough problems getting people to see what needs to be done so we are here after 100 years.

In the end the sun will expand and destroy the earth, 4 or more billion years from now.
Also, not my problem.
I'm leaving it for future generation to solve.

[Potemkin]

Things can change a lot in 5 million years, and believing that things could be what we perceive should be in pre-industrial times in 5 million years is just another kind of human-centric thinking.

It takes time to re-establish biodiversity, @Patrickov. For example, after the end-Permian mass extinction event, we know that it took 30 million years for the Earth to recover its former biodiversity. Five million years to recover biodiversity from the Holocene extinction event is a conservative estimate.

[Patrickov]

For example, after the end-Permian mass extinction event, we know that it took 30 million years for the Earth to recover its former biodiversity.

Which is exactly why I think giving a damn on our "responsibilities" on the nature is pointless.

If human go too far, they go extinct. No big deal.

[Potemkin]

Which is exactly why I think giving a damn on our "responsibilities" on the nature is pointless.

If human go too far, they go extinct. No big deal.

It’s actually highly unlikely that humans will go extinct, @Patrickov. We’re just too clever and too adaptable. But after a few more tens of thousands of years of our depredations, the Earth’s ecosystem will be severely impoverished, and even if we were to vanish overnight (highly unlikely) it would take millions of years to recover its former biodiversity.

[late]

Scientists are talking among themselves about the risk of collapsing the ecologies on the planet. Possibly even resulting in the planet going anerobic..

[Potemkin]

Scientists are talking among themselves about the risk of collapsing the ecologies on the planet. Possibly even resulting in the planet going anerobic..

This is highly unlikely, @late. If even the end-Permian extinction event couldn't do that, then nothing we can do could possibly accomplish it.

[BlutoSays]

With all due respect, people have been predicting the dollar crashing for decades.

Right now it is very strong. It doesn't seem likely to crash soon. If foreigners make the dollar crash, they will lose $4 trillion dollars worth of value, so they might think twice.

I was opposed to corps moving their factories overseas. It was the biggest mistake any nation in all of history has ever made (except for Japan attacking Pearl Harbor). So, yes, that might be a big problem someday. However, the US has a huge gold stock. It can buy things with gold while it builds new factories. It can also export oil, natural gas, and food. It has assets it can use if the dollar crashes.

Meanwhile, ACC is going to get much worse very very fast.

I'm terrified of ACC, and don't worry about the dollar crashing at all. If the dollar crashes I will be fucked, because we convert dollars to Thai bhat to live.

.

Well then, you're closer to CN than I am. Why don't you fly into Beijing and lecture them on climatology?

[BlutoSays]

Oh boy! We sure do love our children.

[late]

This is highly unlikely, @late. If even the end-Permian extinction event couldn't do that, then nothing we can do could possibly accomplish it.

It is unlikely, but we already have areas that are anaerobic, it is likely they will get a lot bigger.

And if the plants in the Pacific that produce oxygen die off from the water warming, things could get entirely too interesting..

[late]

Oh boy! We sure do love our children.

Only you could jump from kids to Republicans cutting the budget of the IRS to keep them from investigating the rich for the tax evasion they've been doing since Reagan taught them to be scum..

[BlutoSays]

Only you could jump for kids to Republicans cutting the budget of the IRS to keep them from investigating the rich for the tax evasion they've been doing since Reagan taught them to be scum..

Cutting the budget? They're trying to INCREASE the IRS workforce by 80K agents.

They aren't going after the rich. They're going after the middle class, dipshit.

[late]

Cutting the budget? They're trying to INCREASE the IRS workforce by 80K agents.

They aren't going after the rich. They're going after the middle class, dipshit.

Cutting the IRS budget started during the Reagan years. They did other things to make cheating easy and safe (for the rich).

You see, the IRS used to be able to do it's job. Those 80K agents may be enough for the IRS to do it's job, but I'd bet more reform will be needed.

You are a one cylinder engine that thinks it's ready for the Indy 500...

[QatzelOk]

The basic problems facing the human race right now tend to be problems of success - our species has been so successful in terms of natural selection that we have overrun the entire planet. Our numbers have reached plague proportions, and the human race is the most significant pest on the planet right now, even to the extent of causing a mass extinction event of the planet’s ecosystem and changing the planet’s climate. ...

A great post except for your inappropriate use of the expression "Natural Selection."

Our species exceptional "success" was based on the "Fake Selection" that takes place when a species uses environmentally-degrading technologies.

Fake Selection = Unnatural Selection = Critical Difference in terms of potential longevity of our species and others

***

IMHO, 1000 years from now is not my problem...

Good point.

Natural Selection - if we let it happen - would help future humans to be more survival-oriented, whereas our actually-practiced Unnatural Selection (gained through technologies) only helps the present generations to seek thrills, while ensuring that future generations (the children we love) might not even exist.

Well spotted!

[Potemkin]

A great post except for your inappropriate use of the expression "Natural Selection."

Our species exceptional "success" was based on the "Fake Selection" that takes place when a species uses environmentally-degrading technologies.

Fake Selection = Unnatural Selection = Critical Difference in terms of potential longevity of our species and others

***



Good point.

Natural Selection - if we let it happen - would help future humans to be more survival-oriented, whereas our actually-practiced Unnatural Selection (gained through technologies) only helps the present generations to seek thrills, while ensuring that future generations (the children we love) might not even exist.

Well spotted!

No, it's all natural selection, @QatzelOk. When beavers build a dam, are they using technology? When chimpanzees use sticks to winkle out termites, aren't they using tools? Isn't that technology? Humans just do it on a much, much bigger scale, that's all. There's nothing unique to humans that doesn't exist in the rest of the natural world. When we use trawlers to dredge all living things out of an area of the sea, that is natural selection. And when we have degraded our natural environment so badly that we go extinct, that too will be natural selection.

[QatzelOk]

When beavers build a dam, are they using technology?

No. They are using their teeth.

Teeth versus Chainsaws

Natural versus Fake

We don't care about our children and their teeth (natural)
We care about our dogs, SUVs and chainsaws (fake)

[Steve_American]

No, it's all natural selection, @QatzelOk. When beavers build a dam, are they using technology? When chimpanzees use sticks to winkle out termites, aren't they using tools? Isn't that technology? Humans just do it on a much, much bigger scale, that's all. There's nothing unique to humans that doesn't exist in the rest of the natural world.When we use trawlers to dredge all living things out of an area of the sea, that is natural selection. And when we have degraded our natural environment so badly that we go extinct, that too will be natural selection.

Yes, we do have something unique.
We have language that lets us talk about complex things.
Uniquely, we want to teach it to our kids. Chimps can learn American sign langue, but don't teach it to their children.
And, we didn't start destroying the environment until we had invented writing to go with language.

.

[Potemkin]

Yes, we do have something unique.
We have language that lets us talk about complex things.
Uniquely, we want to teach it to our kids. Chimps can learn American sign langue, but don't teach it to their children.

Granted. But this too is simply an hypertrophied ability shared with other animals. Dolphins and other cetaceans seem able to communicate with each other, to some degree or other, and wolves can co-operate and communicate with each other sufficiently well to hunt in packs. Humans just do it in a more sophisticated way and on a much bigger scale.

And, we didn't start destroying the environment until we had invented writing to go with language.

Actually, we started much sooner than that. As humans spread across the world, the megafauna of each continent they ‘discovered’ and entered went extinct almost immediately. This was long before the Neolithic Revolution, let alone the invention of writing or the first cities.

[Unthinking Majority]

I hate sounding like this, but it only took feminists 30-40 years to destroy the family unit.

Divorce and broken homes are rampant, single motherhood is common, kids without dads, dogs are women's babies instead of actual babies, children are raised by strangers in daycares, 2 income families working in the corporate meat-grinder is somehow better than 1 when it has only really caused inflation/bigger mortgages, people choosing travel and luxury over children...and then having nobody to look after them when they're old, and having little love and fulfillment in retirement.

They were given the keys to the kingdom for the first time in human history and we rooted for their freedom and within 30-40 years western civilization is on a bee-line to total population collapse and extinction.

Now imagine a culture that worships and reveres motherhood and the givers of life itself.