An 'internationalist' CANNOT be 'anti colonial' - Page 9 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15311203
Potemkin wrote:Meh. We should all fuck each other until we’re all the same colour. :)

Doesn't solve the cultural issues though. Does multiculturalism work? Not many examples of it working, as opposed to many examples of it not.

You're in the UK right? Ask the Irish, Scottish, English, and Muslims how things have been working.
#15311205
Unthinking Majority wrote:I've already said that it's not about race, it's about culture. The clash of civilizations is a threat to social stability. Cultures create schisms. If you want to see it in action then look at Quebec vs anglo Canada vs indigenous peoples. The majority typically always rules over the minority, and the minority doesn't like it because they often feel oppressed and without self-determination.

You can see the same with Scotland and Northern Ireland in the UK, Shia vs Sunni vs Kurd vs Jew vs Christian in the middle east, hindu vs muslim vs Sikh in south asia etc., Muslims vs French in France. Wishful thinking doesn't get rid of these problems. This is why nation-states exists in the first place.


Let us talk about logical facts pertaining to colonial and Empire relationships?

The first inhabitants of Boriken (the Land of the Noble Lord) was about more or less 5000 BC. The people were Arawak Tainos who used to live in the Venezuelan jungles. They were very good mariners. Excellent mariners in long canoes. They occupied the island and developed fishing and farming and had Cacique groups.

That lasted until 1493. Because San Juan Bautista the renamed Boriken by the Spanish then moved in. Most natives either fled slavery or intermarried with the Spanish and African descendants. That went on for hundreds of years. 1493-1898. Almost five hundred years of Spanish and Indian and African slave intermixing in culture, language and racial characteristics. There were Irish, Italians, Basque, Germans, English, Jamaicans, Venezuelans, Cubans, Dominicans, and in the years of 1898-1948 (50 years) no one in Puerto Rico was allowed any kind of vote. Not locally or federally. It was a military dictatorship from the USA.

So where did Puerto Rico have a choice on controlling immigration and keeping out or not keeping out anyone who wanted to go there? No control have we ever had over Puerto Rico's land. That is about US control.

So? Why didn't a bunch of white people from the USA go to the island of Puerto Rico and take over? Most of Puerto Rico is densely populated by Spanish speaking, racially mixed people who have been hanging around there fucking each other of different races for CENTURIES.

The culture? It is a mixture of Southern Spanish culture from the Canary Islands and Seville, Andalucia, and all of the Southern Spanish port cities, combined with a smattering of what was left after disease from Europe that the Native Tainos had no resistance to, and slavery imposed by the Spanish crown failed to bring enough workers in. Africans arrived in chains and they also mixed with a lot of poverty stricken Spaniards fleeing the indentured servitude imposed by the Spanish crown who rarely sent women. Mostly men UM. Women and entire families were never allowed to leave all together to the Americas or the West Indies.

So who are we? A mixture of cultures and races. Nothing singular. The language is Spanish.

Now the exposure to the US mainland has made some urban Boricuas know the English language.

How come the mainland Americans do not move to Puerto Rico in the millions? For the same reason that many do not move to Mexico or Colombia. Everyone speaks Spanish, the cost of living in Puerto Rico is much igher than in Mexico or Colombia, and the pay is low and the cost of living is high. Why do that when you can stay in Florida for the same amount of money or less and not have to speak Spanish, English and French well in order to get paid half the going rate as the USA because in PR. You get paid shit. Now, the Left in Puerto Rico is organized and as such? The federal minimum wage in Puerto Rico is $9.50 US an hour.

Still not much when your electricity is almost three times or more higher than in NYC rates.

Where is the advantage for the average English speaking person who wants to overrun Puerto Rico and take over from the Puerto Rican scene the Native Puerto Ricoans?

Instead you force Puerto Ricans off the island looking for better wages in some state in the USA. Then they run across dummies like you know who here, who thinks all the Spanish speakers are illegally present in the USA invading their space. When it is the opposite situation for us?

Think about it UM. We have not gotten invaded by millions of Anglo mainlanders because it is not advantageous to them. Period. it is not advantageous to us either. Colonialism is basically obsolete and should be scrapped as a model to follow for all nations who seek to progress their own needs in the international community.

Do you need more clarification?
#15311214
Potemkin wrote:Meh. We should all fuck each other until we’re all the same colour. :)


But you lose your culture by hanging around with people from another culture.

That is the moron assessment of the many who fear all this intermingling.

Lol. God, sometimes I get tired of all this xenophobia from people who fail to understand that the big enemy of humanity is wanting to wipe out variation. That is what keeps us vialble and alive.

We were never meant to be the same. Ever.

Why is that so fucking hard for so many of these assimilationists to understand? There is a difference between wiping out entire cultures in order to fill them with lies so you could control them over time and exploit them better? Versus people who learn about ten languages each and understand dozens of human cultures and are flexible and care about the survival of ALL OF THEM.

You really have to spell out things for the ones who never are taught a damn thing about ethnographics eh?

I still think that Haggis shit from Scotland is revolting. Lol. So there! :lol:

And I doubt your mother will ever know how to make a proper mofongo. ;)
#15311217
Tainari88 wrote:
If you study political parties from around the world, the US is not unique. You have a lot of change within traditional parties.



It only happens here if one of the 2 dominant parties dies. Been that way for 200 years.
#15311218
late wrote:It only happens here if one of the 2 dominant parties dies. Been that way for 200 years.


Who do you think is going to die out? The Republicans or the Democrats? Lol.

I say you are way late for an overdue overhaul of those stale parties Señor.

Time to get rid of those trashy Republicans in all ways with a Democrat label and do a much better buffet of choices that make sense for the future.


You might get the conman as Prez. What will you do Late?

Paint me a scenario of Trump presidency crap?

You have 75 million voters voting for him Late.
#15311222
I knew that @FiveofSwords would mention that no disabled or homeless were sentenced to the concentration camps . This is however only a half truth , as the Aktion T4 program wasn't carried out in the concentration or death camps , but rather in select medical centers , such as Am Spiegelgrund , in Austria. Also Aktion T4 was begun even before the rest of the Holocaust .
https://www.history.co.uk/article/aktion-t4-the-nazi-euthanasia-programme-that-killed-300000 ,
https://digital.kenyon.edu/bulmash_euthanasia/
I am personally interested in the subject , as I myself , as I had mentioned elsewhere am autistic , I have a neurodevelopmental condition which used to be named after Third Reich era Austrian physician , Hans Asperger .

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05112-1 , https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/asperger-nazi/

FiveofSwords , as a Holocaust denier , whom might likely be operating under a self imposed information control , might not acknowledge it , but I as such , if I had been unfortunate enough to have lived at that time and place , could have either been exterminated , or at the very least detained in one of the concentration/death camps , as an asocial , with a black triangle badge . That's if I wouldn't have already been assigned a red triangle , for being a political prisoner . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badge

The only reason why I wouldn't expect to have also have had a superimposed yellow triangle , would be that I would have been less what was termed a second degree Mischling , in regards to my discovered Jewish ancestry .

And this , @TorrentialRain , is what I have against fascism , and is one of the reasons why instead I have chosen to espouse Communism , as my political worldview . I really do not think that there are any ideas having merit unique to National Socialism , that is not also found within such ideologies as liberal socialism , and even one-nation conservatism . If I were opposed to Marxism , for whatever reason , yet still wanted to stand against neo-liberal capitalism , I would choose one of those two before mentioned ideologies to identify with , so as not to be stigmatized by the negative historical connotations associated with fascism . And yes , @FiveofSwords , I actually have read essays and documents put forth by key National Socialists , such as found in this book , "Nazi Ideology Before 1933" , which I had read before I had later discovered my own Jewish ancestry , while researching my genealogy . I had never really espoused neo-Nazi beliefs before . But after realizing that I myself am part of Zera Yisrael , I have come to take the straw man arguments that the National Socialists made against the so called Judaeo-Bolsheviks more personally .
Last edited by Deutschmania on 08 Apr 2024 20:58, edited 1 time in total.
#15311223
Tainari88 wrote:
Who do you think is going to die out? The Republicans or the Democrats? Lol.

I say you are way late for an overdue overhaul of those stale parties Señor.

Time to get rid of those trashy Republicans in all ways with a Democrat label and do a much better buffet of choices that make sense for the future.


You might get the conman as Prez. What will you do Late?

Paint me a scenario of Trump presidency crap?

You have 75 million voters voting for him Late.



Trump will lose, Republicans know that which is why they have a half dozen schemes going to try and make him the president after losing.
#15311226
late wrote:Trump will lose, Republicans know that which is why they have a half dozen schemes going to try and make him the president after losing.


Well we are in for a show. That is for sure.

The Mexican elections are coming up fast. Early June of this year. It looks like Claudia Sheinbaum is going to be Mexico's president.

A scientist who is very interested in enviornmental causes and infrastucture and social projects...it is going to shape up well.

She is extremely intelligent Late.

This year is interesting in politics for sure.

You might have some Republicans storming the capitals of their many states claiming to have the election stolen from them.

Some crazy rioting and etc.

Will it get rid of the old establishment system?

Your guess is as good as mine.

Mexico is going for a woman socialist. End of the story in my neck of the woods. ;)
#15311236
Deutschmania wrote:I knew that @FiveofSwords would mention that no disabled or homeless were sentenced to the concentration camps . This is however only a half truth , as the Aktion T4 program wasn't carried out in the concentration or death camps , but rather in select medical centers , such as Am Spiegelgrund , in Austria. Also Aktion T4 was begun even before the rest of the Holocaust .
https://www.history.co.uk/article/aktion-t4-the-nazi-euthanasia-programme-that-killed-300000 ,
https://digital.kenyon.edu/bulmash_euthanasia/
I am personally interested in the subject , as I myself , as I had mentioned elsewhere am autistic , I have a neurodevelopmental condition which used to be named after Third Reich era Austrian physician , Hans Asperger .

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05112-1 , https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/asperger-nazi/

FiveofSwords , as a Holocaust denier , whom might likely be operating under a self imposed information control , might not acknowledge it , but I as such , if I had been unfortunate enough to have lived at that time and place , could have either been exterminated , or at the very least detained in one of the concentration/death camps , as an asocial , with a black triangle badge . That's if I wouldn't have already been assigned a red triangle , for being a political prisoner . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badge

The only reason why I wouldn't expect to have also have had a superimposed yellow triangle , would be that I would have been less what was termed a second degree Mischling , in regards to my discovered Jewish ancestry .

And this , @TorrentialRain , is what I have against fascism , and is one of the reasons why instead I have chosen to espouse Communism , as my political worldview . I really do not think that there are any ideas having merit unique to National Socialism , that is not also found within such ideologies as liberal socialism , and even one-nation conservatism . If I were opposed to Marxism , for whatever reason , yet still wanted to stand against neo-liberal capitalism , I would choose one of those two before mentioned ideologies to identify with , so as not to be stigmatized by the negative historical connotations associated with fascism . And yes , @FiveofSwords , I actually have read essays and documents put forth by key National Socialists , such as found in this book , "Nazi Ideology Before 1933" , which I had read before I had later discovered my own Jewish ancestry , while researching my genealogy . I had never really espoused neo-Nazi beliefs before . But after realizing that I myself am part of Zera Yisrael , I have come to take the straw man arguments that the National Socialists made against the so called Judaeo-Bolsheviks more personally .

But actually it is 100% true that no homeless or disabled were sent to desth camps. That is not merely a 'half truth' lol. Even mainstream historians will admit that this never happened.

It is also absolutely false that the nsdap killed people with asperger's lol...why is everyone so absurd and dramatic about the nsdap? You actually believe this crap? Fyi the germans were fairly normal civilized people when Hitler came to power and they still were after the war was over.

There was, in fact, a euthanasia program for people who had very crippling disability where there was no chance for a decent quality of life. It was done at the request of the parents. This program was discontinued around 1942 because a lot of people thought it was too ghoulish. They protested and wow...the nsdap just listened to them and discontinued it. I personally don't see what was so wrong with it the german people were a bit too soft and emotional.

But that is all. The crazy stuff mentioned in the Nuremberg trials about the t4 program is quite unbelievable and there is zero physical evidence for it. Just outrageous claims from random people. We know for a fact that people made up a lot if stuff about Germany...people have ADMITTED it. The weirdest accounts of the 't4' program are without a doubt exactly the same sort of thing.
#15311237
Deutschmania wrote:I knew that @FiveofSwords would mention that no disabled or homeless were sentenced to the concentration camps . This is however only a half truth , as the Aktion T4 program wasn't carried out in the concentration or death camps , but rather in select medical centers , such as Am Spiegelgrund , in Austria. Also Aktion T4 was begun even before the rest of the Holocaust .
https://www.history.co.uk/article/aktion-t4-the-nazi-euthanasia-programme-that-killed-300000 ,
https://digital.kenyon.edu/bulmash_euthanasia/
I am personally interested in the subject , as I myself , as I had mentioned elsewhere am autistic , I have a neurodevelopmental condition which used to be named after Third Reich era Austrian physician , Hans Asperger .

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05112-1 , https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/asperger-nazi/

FiveofSwords , as a Holocaust denier , whom might likely be operating under a self imposed information control , might not acknowledge it , but I as such , if I had been unfortunate enough to have lived at that time and place , could have either been exterminated , or at the very least detained in one of the concentration/death camps , as an asocial , with a black triangle badge . That's if I wouldn't have already been assigned a red triangle , for being a political prisoner . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badge

The only reason why I wouldn't expect to have also have had a superimposed yellow triangle , would be that I would have been less what was termed a second degree Mischling , in regards to my discovered Jewish ancestry .

And this , @TorrentialRain , is what I have against fascism , and is one of the reasons why instead I have chosen to espouse Communism , as my political worldview . I really do not think that there are any ideas having merit unique to National Socialism , that is not also found within such ideologies as liberal socialism , and even one-nation conservatism . If I were opposed to Marxism , for whatever reason , yet still wanted to stand against neo-liberal capitalism , I would choose one of those two before mentioned ideologies to identify with , so as not to be stigmatized by the negative historical connotations associated with fascism . And yes , @FiveofSwords , I actually have read essays and documents put forth by key National Socialists , such as found in this book , "Nazi Ideology Before 1933" , which I had read before I had later discovered my own Jewish ancestry , while researching my genealogy . I had never really espoused neo-Nazi beliefs before . But after realizing that I myself am part of Zera Yisrael , I have come to take the straw man arguments that the National Socialists made against the so called Judaeo-Bolsheviks more personally .


Also...of course there are fundamental differences between Marxism and national socialism. Obviously, lol, the nationalist part being the most important. Yes, people are more willing to cooperate when they feel they have the same legacy and destiny...and this is most pronounced when they are the same race. The social cohesion required for altruism and a stable socialist society is damaged by diversity, as countless studies have demonstrated. This is, for example, one reason why Amazon wanted their work force to be diverse...to prevent the formation of unions...according to the leaked memo a few years ago.

Also, the german national socialists identified far more relevant economic concerns than the Marxists did...which is why THEIR version of socialism made the german economy strong, while the issr always had a relatively weak and inefficient economy. Most important, for example, the German socialist eliminated rent seeking...the practice of making money simply because you have money (or stock shares or land you can rent out). They created an economy where everyone's money came simply from their own work. Marxists were unable to achieve that.
#15311256
Unthinking Majority wrote:How would you define them?


Since you and I live in Canada, it would be easy to use the Canadian federal multiculturalism policy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicult ... ralism_Act

Whether or not it worked depends on the intent. If the intent was to make money (e do live in a capitalist country) then it worked quite well.

Rugoz wrote:Do we want Nazis on Pofo? :?:


No.
#15311257
FiveofSwords wrote:Actually no, there aren't. Not by any reasonable definition of communism. Communism by definition is opposed to nationalism.

Socialism that is nationalist is called...predictably...National socialist. Like the national socialist German workers party, for example.

Maoism was not nationalist...it was very internationalist...and it mainly differed from leninism by literally being more internationalist than leninism was...namely by incorporating the lumpenproletariat.

As I mentioned in the op, MODERN China does appear to be national socialist. But they still sortof claim to be inspired by maoism despite this radical contradiction. Naturally no country would enjoy being associated with national socialism considering the controversial historic associations. It is the most feared ideology on earth.


The word "national" in "national socialist" refers to nationalism.

Also, national socialism refers to Nazism, and it's actually against Communism.

Finally, modern China has a mixed economy, so it's not Nazi.
#15311258
Pants-of-dog wrote:Having no official religion was nationalistic in that time since they were opposing a country that did have. an official state religion. And they did not need to declare an official language since all the powerful people already spoke the same language.



Capitalism is an international system. No one is claiming that capitalism is nationalist.



It still serves as an example of nationalism that also spread capitalism.


From what I know, capitalism is an economic process involving capital used to obtain means of production and manufacture.

If the means are owned by private individuals, then it's private or bourgeois capitalism, and if owned by workers, cooperatives. If they're owned by the public, state capitalism.
#15311272
paeng wrote:From what I know, capitalism is an economic process involving capital used to obtain means of production and manufacture.

If the means are owned by private individuals, then it's private or bourgeois capitalism, and if owned by workers, cooperatives. If they're owned by the public, state capitalism.


Private vs public is a rather fake division and these labels always seem incoherent when speaking about economic systems. If private means anything it just means not part of the governing body. Being a 'worker' would seem to preclude being some government official so how on earth could a person say workers are not private? These definitions just seem incoherent.
#15311273
Pants-of-dog wrote:Since you and I live in Canada, it would be easy to use the Canadian federal multiculturalism policy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicult ... ralism_Act

Whether or not it worked depends on the intent. If the intent was to make money (e do live in a capitalist country) then it worked quite well.

Well "work" would typically mean the country can 1. continue to exist at all, without parts of the country separating to form their own nation-states due to cultural schisms, and 2. can exist without significant political/social strife due to cultural differences between groups, including national unity etc. We can add sort of what you refer to, so 3. the country works on a functional level (economics, government) with more than one significant cultural group.

Canada has so far been successful with #1 but has failed quite a bit at #2, given that Quebec still hasn't signed the constitution, has held independence referendum with very close results, most Quebec schools don't fly the Canadian flag or sing the Canadian nation anthem, and there still exists a Quebec separatist party in Canada's legislature that is fairly popular among Quebecois. Then there's many schisms with Canada's indigenous groups. There's also white nationalist/indigenous/Quebec sovereignty/radical Islamist/Sikh nationalist acts of terrorism.

With #3 I'd say there's some moderate issues with the function of Canada's government operating in 2 different official languages (most Canadians can't work for their own government since they aren't bilingual), and there remains political issues with things like indigenous land claims etc.
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