[ingliz]

@Godstud

You know my position on this matter, and it is perfectly defensible.

No drug treatment is to be given or surgical procedures performed on those under the age of medical consent.

If they have 'capacity' and are breaking no law, it is no business of ours what they choose to do with their bodies.

[skinster]

Right, but don't you think it's a bit dumb to give people medication that does pretty much nothing for them except destroy their bodies? Do you think it's a good idea to give people stuff just because they want it? Is this not a violation of the Hippocratic oath? Would you let your children or grandchildren be medicated in the quest to cease their dysphoria, when report after report shows that it actually doesn't do that and actually causes harm..

[Fasces]

Jesus Christ, @Godstud

[ingliz]

@skinster

My children and grandchildren (save one) are adults and I believe they should be free to choose how they live their lives and not worry about what I or other people think.

[skinster]

@skinster

My children and grandchildren (save one) are adults and I believe they should be free to choose how they live their lives and not worry about what I or other people think.

But if they told you they were going to take useless and harmful meds because of FEELINGS, you'd be fine with it?

[AFAIK]

The first list contains items that contradict one another, for example d says sports leagues can choose to allow trans people to compete as their chosen sex whilst l says they are forced to do so, which is confusing if I'm supposed to use this as a checklist to judge how transphobic I am.

I'm very libertarian on social issue and believe people should be able to live their own lives and make their own decisions and society should support and accommodate those decisions when the burden of doing so is low.

[Godstud]

The first list contains items that contradict one another, for example d says sports leagues can choose to allow trans people to compete as their chosen sex whilst l says they are forced to do so, which is confusing if I'm supposed to use this as a checklist to judge how transphobic I am.

They made special rules because men and women are not equal, particularly physical. Title 9 sports, where they made sports for women to participate on a fair field. When you let biological males (identifying as women) participate in women's sports, you get an unfair playing field that removes the fairness from the sport, and the entire point of separating men and woman, in the first place. These are real things affecting real women(not people pretending to be adult human females).

As you for your transphobic comment... that's just you being a virtue signaller. People being forced to participate in the category designed for their biological sex is not transphobic. It's common sense, and is based on reality. That transmen are not an issue in men's sports points out the vast differences between men and women. Women cannot cosmetically change themselves and participate against men, whereas men can. Hormonal therapy does not remove the inherent advantages that males have. Indeed, even with hormone blockers and such, a transwoman will have over 10x the testosterone as a woman.

I am all for people living their own lives, as long as it doesn't infringe upon other's rights.

Want to dress up as a woman? Great. Want to go to a women's washroom and infringe upon their rights to privacy away from males? No.

Want to groom and push children towards your gender identity ideology(contradictory to biology and reality), or teach them sex at a young age? NO. You can do that to them in college, when they are consenting adults.

Want me to call you "Loretta" if you are a man? I'll happily do it. It isn't going to make me believe you are a woman, however. You cannot police my pronoun usage, either, but most people try to be polite.

Society should not support the delusions of a very tiny minority who need mental health care more than anything else.

[Fasces]

@AFAIK

Its not a checklist in that sense. One supercedes the other. I tried to word them in such a way that someone who supports (K) can be reasonably assumed to also support anything before that.

The first is about institutions or sports leagues voluntarily choosing to accomodate trans individuals. The other is about laws mandating it. I figure anyone who supports a law mandating it, would also support allowing them to voluntarily choose to do so, so it is higher up the list - but not vice versa. Similarly, someone that would ban institutions from volubtarily accommodating trans people probably wouldn't support a law forcing them to do so.

[Fasces]

Generally, I personally support:

CATEGORY 1: up to G*, can have conversations about beyond that but i think it becomes far too much trouble far too quickly because of folks who become utterly irrational over the issue (opposing it is fine, doing a 180 to becoming a born again Christian and Trump supporter when before you were a Marxist or lib is fucking weird)

*youth sports leagues are very debatable, but I'm absolutely against the weird shit the GOP is doing to enforce it, such as mandatory genital checks.

For category 2: A-C. I'm not a doctor or interested in being one, so I'll defer to professional and prevailing medical opinions over random blog posts I find online.

For category 3: a and b.

I feel this is where most reasonable people are, more or less. Or as Godstud puts it, I'm part of a cult indoctrinating children to groom them for pedophiles and to believe chromosomes aren't real.

[Godstud]

@Fasces I am not a born again Christian. I am not a Trump supporter. I was never a Marxist or Communist. I have always been a Liberal, but not a Leftist. There is a difference, but I am sure such nuance is beyond the understanding of a radical such as yourself. You are a liar, really. Regardless if I was, or not, my arguments stand.

*youth sports leagues are very debatable, but I'm absolutely against the weird shit the GOP is doing to enforce it, such as mandatory genital checks.

No one said you need genital check, although I am sure you'd enjoy doing so. A birth certificate would do for women's sports, and everyone knows that you can't police washrooms. I've argued against such silliness. You can still have policies in place to protect children and women, however.

For category 2: A-C. I'm not a doctor or interested in being one, so I'll defer to professional and prevailing medical opinions over random blog posts I find online.

Ah, the old " I am not a doctor so I can't have an opinion" argument. Opinions not based on facts are worthless. Fact: There are two sexes: Male and Female. Gender nonsense(that is what it is) were made up by a deviant sociologist in the 1950s named John Money. He was amoral and ethically criminal.

A 1997 academic study criticized Money's work in many respects, particularly in regard to the involuntary sex-reassignment of the child David Reimer. Money allegedly coerced David and his brother Brian to perform sexual rehearsal with each other, which Money then photographed. David Reimer lived a troubled life, ending with his suicide at 38; his brother died of an overdose at age 36.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mone ... otographed.

I'm part of a cult indoctrinating children to groom them for pedophiles and to believe chromosomes aren't real.

Thank you for that admission. You might as well say it if you aren't standing up to delusion and child exploitation.

[Fasces]

See? Utterly broken brain.

[Fasces]

No one said you need genital check, although I am sure you'd enjoy doing so.

Off the top of my head Kansas and Florida both passed laws to authorize school officials to inspect the gentilia of minors participating in sports leagues to prevent trans athletes from competing.

[Godstud]

@Fasces I am not in charge of school policies. I don't support those policies, either. A "genital check" is absurd. Stop being a fool.

[Fasces]

What's "you being in charge of school officials" have to do with your claim:

that state GOP lawmakers did not push laws allowing school officials to complete genital inspections.

They did.

What trans activists have passed laws allowing adults to inspect children's genitals?

[Godstud]

I never said I support such things. I stated as such. You are very dishonest.

You don't need "genital inspections" to know what sex a person is. You know this, as well, but are pushing a narrative.

[AFAIK]

I find it strange that no one mentions puberty when discussing trans sports. I'd argue that sex segregation should be based on what sex you were during puberty since male puberty results in larger muscles, bones and organs than female puberty regardless of what hormones a trans athlete adds in adulthood. I'd also like to see more gender neutral spaces since this would benefit families, the non-binary as well as trans people.

As you for your transphobic comment...

I was expecting the poll to offer multiple options across a spectrum rather than the binary yes or no. I'd like to think I'm an ally to trans people but there are people who would call be transphobic or consider me hostile for opposing male born trans athletes from competing in women's sports.

[Fasces]

I'm fine with people opposing it - I'm not necessarily the biggest fan and know plenty of women against it. But if a league or sports organization chooses to allow it freely or under certain guidelines, that's their perogative.

It's when people start arguing that the state should supercede those organizations and prevent them from letting trans athlete compete that I give a little side eye. If the organizers, athletes, sponsors and so on of XYZ sport are fine with it and choose to allow it, so be it. If you really don't like it, start your own competition that doesn't, and if the silent majority agrees with you, you'll quickly displace them.

[Godstud]

Why do they need to start a new league for women just to keep an extremely small minority happy? The current women's leagues are fine, and if trans people want to compete then they should make their own Trans league instead of forcing others to comply with them. In short, they should be accommodating to biological women, and not the other way around. Women are already standing up to this and being lambasted for it. See Riley Gaines and others.

[Fasces]

To be clear, you're against private organizations and their stakeholders choosing for themselves to accommodate and include trans people?

I have never cared about NCAA collegiate swimming, male or female. I have never attended an event. I couldn't tell you which schools participate or the name of any athletes, and while I assume they probably have the same events as the Olympics, I couldn't tell you how many events those are or their specific names beyond a couple.

I am not the person who should be make decisions about NCAA competitive swimming regulations. That should go to the stakeholders and participants.

And if the vast majority of them are fine with letting trans athletes compete, or at least not so against it that a loud and angry minority decided it'd be more productive to appeal to other clueless idiots in a legislature who don't care about NCAA collegiate swimming but do care about scoring cheap culture war points... The "small minority" being "accommodated" here isn't the trans athletes.

[Godstud]

To be clear, you're against private organizations and their stakeholders choosing for themselves to accommodate and include trans people?

Where did I say that?

To point out a problem, however... This happened very recently.
Alaska gyms in spotlight after indecent exposure at one, man in women’s locker room at another
According to the parent, the Alaska Club had reviewed the footage of the incident and indicated to her that they would not report it to the police; however they would revoke his gym membership. The parent did contact police; the video corroborated that the man was fondling himself in front of the girl.

Meanwhile, a Fairbanks woman who went to Planet Fitness in Anchorage reported there was a man in the women’s locker room who was shaving. She was uncomfortable and approached him verbally to let him know he did not belong in the women’s locker, and also told the staff. The man allegedly told her he was a queer male and would not leave. The staff was unresponsive to her request, she said.

Planet Fitness took away the membership of a Michigan woman several years ago after she complained about a transgender woman in the locker room. She was told that Planet Fitness has a “no judgment policy” that allows people to use locker rooms based on “their sincere, self-reported gender identity.” So far, Silva has not had her membership revoked, but may self-revoke it, and was warning other Alaskans to watch out for their children in gyms.
https://mustreadalaska.com/alaska-gyms- ... t-another/

I take it that you support pedophiles and perverts going into women's spaces? To say that this doesn't affect women would be a lie. Do you hate women?