[Pants-of-dog]

Tennessee just passed a law that basically allows the government to compel a teenage girl to give birth in the case of incest and rape.

[snapdragon]

Meanwhile, in the U.K., a bill banning protests outside abortion clinics has past the first hurdle.

[skinster]

Tennessee just passed a law that basically allows the government to compel a teenage girl to give birth in the case of incest and rape.

Backwards Amerikkka.

[Unthinking Majority]

A parent can just allow a child to die of hunger by not actively giving the child food yet this parent would be a criminal even if he/she did not do anything to "force" the hunger, they simply let it happen.

Yes because when you create a human being you're responsible for making sure it doesn't die.

A doctor that just stands by a patient gasping for air and does nothing, is also responsible for this (whether criminal or negligence/etc) even though the Doctor is not forcing a pillow and actively suffocating the patient.
Failure to act is not an excuse.

How does this relate to abortion? A doctor's job is make humans healthier, not to execute humans. If doctor's aren't allowed to do abortions they are saving human lives, if they do abortions they're ending human lives that are otherwise healthy. If the mother's health is in jeopardy then abortions can be ethical.

If a doctor is just standing around and not doing abortions they aren't letting a patient "gasp for air" etc., they're saving lives, which is their job.

In the same way that we could make laws to put a "duty" on people to donate kidneys we can put a law that bans abortion.

Forcing people to be ripped open and having their organs stolen from them is extremely different than doing nothing to a healthy pregnant woman.

The thing is if ethically you cannot justify using against their will somebody' else body to save a life... you couldn't possibly justify it for a pregnant woman either.

So women get pregnant against their will? No they don't, they choose to have sex. Unless it's rape. Abortion is buyer's remorse, which results in a human life being killed.

We are back to the ridiculous premise of using completing a pregnancy to term as a deterrent/punishment for what you perceive to be unpalatable to your morals.

It's not a punishment or a deterrent LOL. Why do you keep arguing that? When have I said anything of the sort. Do you understand the concept that when you have sex, especially when not using proper birth control, you have informed consent that it could lead to pregnancy, and that's it's horribly unethical to willfully take part in an activity that can create human life and then when you do create a life you kill it?

Do you really care about fetal life? If so here is a bit of information for you.
Over 80% of abortions are spontaneous abortions.

"Spontaneous abortions"? You mean miscarriages.

A woman in her mid-40's at the time of conception have a 50/50 chance of having a spontaneous abortion.
In other words, if you don't support legislation to prohibits women over the age of 40 getting pregnant, you are responsible for half of those "babies" (as you tend to call them) dying.
Arguably, the best way to avoid all of those babies dying, is to ban pregnancies altogether, since 80% of "babies" dying is spontaneous either way.
Perhaps you are a bit more pragmatic and are okey with some of them dying... how about a pregnancy ban for anyone under 20 and anyone over 30? are you OK banning pregnancy for those outside the 20-30 of age that way we can avoid spontaneous abortions and "babies" dying needlessly?

Miscarriages are vastly different than the pre-meditated killing of an unborn.

You get into really messy situations when you really think about this. The more complex you want to make it, the worse the outcome for your position. My position is simple, you cannot force someone to be an incubator.

My position is simple too: don't kill people.

Again, trying to use pregnancy as a punishment for what you consider "bad behavior". Of course, you neglect that perhaps the pregnancy may have happened despite precautions, or perhaps there are health conditions, or perhaps the situation of the couple and/or the woman occurred shortly after the pregnancy.

It's not a punishment, it's about not killing babies. Getting into financial difficulties after the baby is conceived isn't a good excuse to kill it. Put it up for adoption.

Not to mention none of this is ultimately relevant because the reason why abortion should not be banned is that you cannot force someone to be an incubator, or at least you shouldn't.

But you should kill unborn babies right that the mother (and father) created by their own willful actions right? That's cool, that's ethical?

This sums it up pretty nicely. Like I said earlier, and now I am glad you admit it (even though probably you didn't mean it). You don't care about the life itself, you just want it to be a punishment. A punishment which by the way seems to be almost exclusively directed to the women. You know... "those disgusting whores that had sex for fun". Finally, you show your true colors.

This paragraph is lies and total nonsense made up in your own mind.

No. Fuck you.

You support the killing of innocent unborn babies and i'm trying to save their lives. I'm not the bad guy.

[Hindsite]

@Hindsite
The source I quoted is actually one of the least biased media sources you can get. It is neither left nor right, which is why I added in the additional source for the right-wingers who can no longer discern between fact and fiction.

You, and others, aren't smart enough to tell fact from fiction, and so you call everything "Fake News".

Here is Fox News(FAKE NEWS- Haindsite, ) reporting the same thing...

CNN updates report to remove 'fetus that was born' phrasing

FOX news often reports what the Fake News CNN says so it's viewers know what lies the other networks are pushing. Your other source may be less bias than MSNBC and CNN, but that is not saying much for its credibility. So FAKE News.

[Godstud]

Fox News reported it, you numpty! Are you saying that Fox News is ALSO fake news?

Grow up

[Hindsite]

Fox News reported it, you numpty! Are you saying that Fox News is ALSO fake news?

Grow up

You have poor comprehension problems.

[Godstud]

I have comprehension problems? Fuck off.

I used Fox News as a source, just to show you that you and Finfinder were LYING. Fox News confirmed that.

[Hindsite]

I have comprehension problems? Fuck off.

I used Fox News as a source, just to show you that you and Finfinder were LYING. Fox News confirmed that.

FOX News did no such thing.

[Godstud]

Yes. They did.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-fetus ... n-survivor

[Hindsite]

Yes. They did.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-fetus ... n-survivor

That is just a report about what the CNN Fake news reported.
Get your head out.

[Godstud]

They did not dispute the information, because it was factual. They reported the error and not the content. That makes you WRONG. That makes your claim false, because the claim that someone supported post-birth abortions is a bold-faced lie, by you, and others.

[Hindsite]

They did not dispute the information, because it was factual. They reported the error and not the content. That makes you WRONG. That makes your claim false, because the claim that someone supported post-birth abortions is a bold-faced lie, by you, and others.

Believe your lies, but I am staying with the truth.

[Skynet]

Most women I knew aborted due to pressure of their boyfriends or their family.


It was for all a traumatic experience.

So it is not their choice.


Are there any statistics?

[colliric]

I just plain can't wait for Roe Vs Wade to be overturned. A second Trump term would be worth while just to get more conservatives on that supreme Court.

[XogGyux]

Yes because when you create a human being you're responsible for making sure it doesn't die.


How does this relate to abortion? A doctor's job is make humans healthier, not to execute humans. If doctor's aren't allowed to do abortions they are saving human lives, if they do abortions they're ending human lives that are otherwise healthy. If the mother's health is in jeopardy then abortions can be ethical.

If a doctor is just standing around and not doing abortions they aren't letting a patient "gasp for air" etc., they're saving lives, which is their job.

The point is, you can be responsible due to your actions as much as your inactions.

So women get pregnant against their will?

Yes, sometimes/often.

No they don't, they choose to have sex.

LOL and back to the use of forcing women to deliver as a way of punishing something that you find distasteful.

It's not a punishment or a deterrent LOL.

It shouldn't be. Yet, that is what you are pushing.

Why do you keep arguing that?

You keep making it evident.
I'll give you another opportunity.
You care about minimizing lives lost right? So you are OK banning pregnancies and forceful sterilizations on women over 40 age right? Since they are just as likely to have a pregnancy that leads to a spontaneous abortion than to an actual term pregnancy (not to mention higher risk of malformation and mental disability). Couples that have problem conceiving, sometimes having dozen of miscarriages should probably be banned of trying again based on your views? I mean... they know their "sex" is going to lead to an abortion right? Also, women with genetic conditions such as thrombophilia.

Do you understand the concept that when you have sex, especially when not using proper birth control, you have informed consent that it could lead to pregnancy, and that's it's horribly unethical to willfully take part in an activity that can create human life and then when you do create a life you kill it?

Trust me I do. Focus your energy on education and promotion of safe sex practices then rather than trying to legislate what a woman can or cannot do with her bodies.

Miscarriages are vastly different than the pre-meditated killing of an unborn.

OK go ahead, make your argument for such claim?

My position is simple too: don't kill people.

Nobody is "killing people" those "people" as you call them, cannot survive or even exist without being parasites of somebody else's body. You don't seem to agree that we should connect kidney disease people to other people to have their blood filtered, or to get one of the 2 healthy kidneys to save someone else's life, or blood or bone marrow... why do you like killing THOSE people? Specially considering that THESE people are actual people rather than a clump of cells or a fetus which inherently has a relatively high chances of spontaneous abortion anyway (> 10%, over 50% in some cases depending on age and mother comorbidities).

It's not a punishment, it's about not killing babies.

Your whole argument betrays you.
It is not that you are not against "killing" as you call it. You yourself admit it that you are in favor of it in certain situations. So you can stomach the killing so long as the circumstances of that pregnancy are morally questionable such as rape/incest/etc or health conditions. You also don't seem to care on minimizing abortions in general, since apparently it does not bother you if a 40 year old woman gets pregnant with close to 50/50 chance of spontaneous abortion. The one time that you care, is if the woman is being irresponsible as compared to your "standards" and in which case you would not want to allow her to exercise her freedom. It seems that you are quite content to use compelling women to carry pregnancies to term as a punishment.

But you should kill unborn babies right that the mother (and father) created by their own willful actions right? That's cool, that's ethical?

That is irrelevant because you cannot/should not overule the rights of a mother or father to their own body.
The moment that you can safely remove an embryo from a mother at no higher risk than abortion and nourish/grow that embryo to an actual viable baby, that day, you can ban all the abortions. That day, your argument would carry weight. Prior to then, it does not matter.

This paragraph is lies and total nonsense made up in your own mind.

Quite the contrary, it seems quite obvious that punishment is your main drive.

You support the killing of innocent unborn babies and i'm trying to save their lives. I'm not the bad guy.

LOL.